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syausky
新手上路
Taiwan
70 Posts |
 Posted - 06/15/2018 : 21:50:26
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ＢＯＢ的溫特斯從排長當到連長都是拿Ｍ１格蘭特,美軍軍官不是都配發Ｍ１卡賓嗎？
這是劇組的疏忽,考據不正確？或者是當時他個人的偏好? 而且因為是傘兵, 所以這一連野蠻多拿卡賓 |
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MikeH
路人甲乙丙
USA
4743 Posts |
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syausky
新手上路
Taiwan
70 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2018 : 21:25:30
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| 原來如此! 聰明! 要是我也會這麼做. 劇中也沒有ＢＡＲ, 是因為對傘兵來說太重,沒編裝嗎? |
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MikeH
路人甲乙丙
USA
4743 Posts |
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waffe
我是老鳥
7188 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2018 : 22:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by syausky
原來如此! 聰明! 要是我也會這麼做. 劇中也沒有ＢＡＲ, 是因為對傘兵來說太重,沒編裝嗎?
以前看過的資料，出發前就沒打算帶BAR直接用正規的LMG Browning.30
Individual Ammunition Loads for Normandy-506th PIR
Major H.W. Hannah, the Regimental S-3 officer of the 506th PIR during Normandy, dug-up an old document with the following orders. Although the loads almost certainly changed on the Market-Garden drop, this is of interest to Normandy fans.
Tentative Plan of Basic Ammunition Loads
MI- 30-06 rifle: Rounds per weapon: 136, jumped on individual. (128 in Air Corps pockets, 4 clips per pocket), 1-8 rnd. clip in rifle, hand, or jumpsuit pocket (55% ball, 40% AP, 5% tracer. Rifle belt and one bandolier may be used in lieu of the above. 60 Riflemen per company will jump with 1 belt of LMG ammunition (250 rounds); this may be used in M-1 rifles if the situation warrants. note from webmaster:-the "Air Corps pockets" were rectangular belt pouches, with a pointed flap secured by a press-a-dot snap. These were discontinued in the 101st after Normandy. The military term "ball" ammo means a lead projectile, completely covered with a copper jacket.
Carbine: Rounds per weapon: 175, jumped on individual. 160 in 2 Air Corps pockets (2 clips and one box per pocket), 15 in hand (1 clip) or jumpsuit pocket (100% ball).
Thompson SMG: Rounds per weapon:300, Jumped on individual. 14 (20 rnd) clips in jump suit pockets or M6 carrying bag, 1 clip in gun, hand, or jumpsuit pocket.
Pistol M1911A1: Rounds per weapon: 21, jumped on individual. 2 clips in pouch, one clip in pistol (100% ball, for pistol and TSMG).
'03 Rifle: Rounds per weapon: 145, jumped on individual. 140 in four Air Corps pockets (7 clips per pocket), 1 5 rnd. clip in rifle, hand, or jumpsuit pocket. The '03 rifle may not be used if launcher for M-1 rifle is issued. It is now a superimposed weapon and if jumped will have to supplant the primary weapon of the man jumping it.
'03 Grenades: 10, jumped on individual 5 in each of 2 M6 carrying bags (6 fragmentation, 4 A.T.)
Hand Grenades: 4, Jumped on individual. 4 Grenades in jumpsuit pockets (if M6 carrying bag is used, 6 can be carried.)
Rocket Launcher: Rounds per weapon: 12, to be jumped on individual. l round per man; collected and carried, 6 in each of 2 Infantry packs collected by crew after jump. The folding launcher may be issued, and can be jumped. Launchers may be dropped in bundles: if so, ammunition will be dropped in bundle.
60mm mortar: Rounds per weapon: 80, each mortar jumped on 3 men. 14 riflemen jump with 1 round each. 3 mortar squad members jump with 4 each in M6 bag; 54 dropped in bundles and carried in cart (4 carts per company).
81mm mortar: Rounds per weapon: 54, dropped in bundle;carried by 3 men. 30 rounds in cart, plus 6 rounds on each of 4 men, or 5 rounds on 4 men and 4 rounds on 1. (cart and all rounds dropped in bundle). 80% H.E. light, 20% White Phosphorus.
LMG Browning M1919-A4: rounds per weapon: 3250, jumped on 2 individuals. In LMG platoon, 2,000 rounds dropped in bundle and carried on 81mm mortar cart, or by S-4. 1,250 rounds jumped on men. (80% A.P. and 20% tracer). A.P.=Armor-Piercing (steel cored projectile with copper jacket). 60 riflemen in each company jump with 1 belt of LMG ammunition, as indicated in M-1 rifle listing.
Reserve LMG: rounds per weapon: 6,250, dropped in bundle
注意開頭有註明實際上會多少有些出入，不過應該差不多是這樣。這是正式的編裝計畫，帶三小、帶多少、彈藥多少、怎麼打包幾個人扛都寫得清清楚楚。
另外以前也在討論區看過一個蠻閒的人發文說他研究了D日前後的老美傘兵照片，統計後100個人裡面一半帶嘉蘭德、剩下的一半各分一半帶湯姆森與卡賓槍，這個結果跟上面的編裝錶蠻接近的。
個人覺得應該是在跳傘前就計畫好要帶三小出門了，81迫砲都帶了沒道理會因為太重不帶BAR。 |
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syausky
新手上路
Taiwan
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2018 : 22:28:37
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| 帶什麼是可以自己選嗎？不是士兵用格蘭特, 士官用湯普生, 軍關用卡賓嗎？ 另外, 那場要攻擊砲陣地那場, 十幾個人就要行動,會不會太躁進？ 若帶門60砲, 各轟個幾砲, 再來收拾會不會較好 |
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sungf29
路人甲乙丙
898 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2018 : 12:52:51
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quote:
Originally posted by syausky
帶什麼是可以自己選嗎？不是士兵用格蘭特, 士官用湯普生, 軍關用卡賓嗎？ 另外, 那場要攻擊砲陣地那場, 十幾個人就要行動,會不會太躁進？ 若帶門60砲, 各轟個幾砲, 再來收拾會不會較好
如果電影有考據接近史實
1.E連當時就只有集中10人左右有機槍就很不錯
2.E連部組+連長的飛機被轟掉 （60迫砲大概也沒了）
3.當時該營所集中人數也沒有100人
4.沒消滅該砲連（其實也沒滿編 而且德軍也是西拼東湊的不是標準砲兵連成員）
後續美軍登陸灘頭堡建立會更困難
簡單說那是遭遇戰.該營長官也許是想派兵騷擾該砲兵連運作.並未打算摧毀該砲兵連.
只是E連+D連訓練太好
該次攻擊還被西點軍校列為教範.
參與攻擊成員大部份被提報勳章
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sungf29
路人甲乙丙
898 Posts |
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waffe
我是老鳥
7188 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2018 : 13:48:21
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quote:
Originally posted by syausky
帶什麼是可以自己選嗎？不是士兵用格蘭特, 士官用湯普生, 軍關用卡賓嗎？ 另外, 那場要攻擊砲陣地那場, 十幾個人就要行動,會不會太躁進？ 若帶門60砲, 各轟個幾砲, 再來收拾會不會較好
編裝表其實分很多種依狀況而定，但主體還是固定編制內的東西而如果要出任務當然會經由參辦人員去規劃特定的裝備，不過前提是你倉庫裡有................
老美是家私頭種類多才能這樣挑肥揀瘦的用，其他國家打完全場無分兵種用的都是那幾種東西，沒從倉庫裡挖一戰留下來的東西塞給你就很偷笑了。
當然實戰中要用什麼(用不是帶)沒人鳥你，能殺死人達成戰術要求你拿長矛都行。
至於電影中的那個橋段，說真的拿傘兵打砲兵那算用牛刀殺公雞大材小用了，兩個兵種訓練內容完全不同，砲兵在步兵戰鬥的訓練很少(除了老毛子但也只是多一些)而傘兵是專精這個的，就像反過來你叫那群傘兵去打砲估計指揮官會氣出祥來.............打得好真的算剛剛好，打不好拿刺刀自己去切腹吧。
當然有60迫可以更省事。 |
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