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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2011 : 16:28:11
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宮廷內部的奪權 傾軋 篡弒 不論古今中外 都是夠黒暗的 稱之黑暗史可也
至於後宮的性事嘛...嘿嘿嘿 又通常是很污穢不堪的 就稱之淫穢史吧
最近看了左岸一位歷史老師的視頻 他大約是教補習班幫學生應付高考吧(大專聯考？)
他稱土共編的史是「穢史」 要學生考完就把歷史教科書燒掉可也
至於他自己是連書都不帶進家門 頂多放在車上 免得髒了自己的屋子
以下這個條目是除了精神病患 一般人約莫是不會去編輯它 免得髒了自己的手
所以稱其名副其實的土共官網可也
(...引爆第一顆原子彈和氫彈成功居然也可以和外交事件並列...)
無視它的史觀 就專門檢視一些它陳列的史料好咧
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/%E4%B8%AD%E5%8D%8E%E4%BA%BA%E6%B0%91%E5%85%B1%E5%92%8C%E5%9B%BD%E5%A4%96%E4%BA%A4%E5%8F%B2
1971年10月20日 美國國務卿季辛吉博士訪華。
1971年10月25日 聯合國大會通過了第2758號決議，中華人民共和國取代中華民國的中國席位。
1972年 2月21日 美國總統尼克森訪華。
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呵呵 季辛吉訪左岸和ROC被踢出聯合國的時間是何其接近啊
就這個臺灣離開聯合國的話題 ROC所謂的學者或美台中三邊關係的政論專家發表的高論諸如
當代中(華民國)美關係發展研究云云可以裝滿一個倉庫 謂之汗牛充棟不誇張
一看這種文章的名稱就彷彿高深莫測 仰之彌高
但當看過本帖的分析之後 你會發覺那些都是大X
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尼克森在1971/07月15日已在美國電視網公開宣佈將於隔(1972)年5月之前訪問大陸
解密1972 （6） 基辛格博士第二次访华
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iK-8o3sERE
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3GYazX8PgY
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CF4pxV84ww
裡面噴了一堆 看官不怕累的話 可以全看 否則主要的重點就是
第一段> 5:20 1971/10月12日 喬冠華啟程參加聯合國大會
第三段> 2:55 臺灣問題
第三段> 4:10 季辛吉已無籌碼 & 周恩來不再讓步
周恩來在臺灣問題不做讓步 季辛吉就得讓步
否則公報內容最終不能達成協議 季辛吉空手而回無法交差
隔年(1972)尼克森自然也就無法來北京和毛澤東握手 然後發表上海公報
也就是說 尼克森已勢成騎虎 如果大陸之行不成 既貽笑於國內與國際
也拿不到毛澤東結束越戰的允諾
在1972/11月的大選 尼克森勢必喪失連任機會
所以 季辛吉在臺灣問題上是怎麼個讓法？
季辛吉當時手上還有什麼籌碼可容他討價還價？
或是說在第三段> 4:20 處 季辛吉和同夥到角落去又商量了什麼？
之後協議終於又是如何達成的？ 季辛吉讓了什麼步？
土鼈把這一段描述得非常地支支吾吾 閃爍其詞 然後下一幕就是送季辛吉上空軍一號走人
另外 看官請再注意眼前的時令 約10月25日左右 也就是說ROC被踢出聯合國的周年紀念日
呵呵~~ 再看第三段> 6:13 處這一幕 在北京的機場 西下的夕陽把人影拉得老長
北京的緯度是39º55分 與敝人目前所在位置緯度只差了一兩度
所以我看那些身影 現場起碼已是下午5點鐘以後的事
有趣的事來了 紐約聯合國總部和北京時差是12小時
紐約半夜零時是北京的中午12時
把ROC踢出聯合國那晚是折騰到半夜時分才拍板定案
所以在北京時間中午12時過後不久就已發生了轟動國際外交界的大事 有個聯合國創始國被「乞丐趕廟公」
但消息要花了 5 個小時以上才飄過了太平洋到達北京 合理嗎？
而且還是戲劇化的空軍一號剛從北京起飛電傳就到送到飛機上
影片還畫蛇添足加上這麼一句 "這結果是季辛吉始料所不及的"
這一切只能叫做欲蓋彌彰 此地無銀三百兩
ROC被踢出聯合國 北京政權在第一時間就應該由它的與會代表丑表功而得知
北京政府知道後應該馬上照會季辛吉 不會還要讓季辛吉過了四五個小時
待上了飛機之後 關起了飛機門 才由美國政府來通知他這個消息
土鼈每談起這件往事就喜不自勝 但又不能喜形於色
所以就這樣彆彆扭扭地拍了這麼一輯拙劣的宣傳品
季辛吉離去之後 1972年2月21日 尼克森訪問大陸 和毛澤東握了手。
尼克森在大陸待了一週 2月底回到美國
30天之後 1972/03月30日 北越發動了復活節攻勢
也就是我之前提過的 北越以20萬人 600輛戰甲車輛 越過非軍事區 進入越南
規模如二戰末期德軍的突出部之役
也是繼1968北越春節攻勢後的第二次大規模的野戰作戰
然後是美軍因應發動後衛(Linebacker)作戰 大規模空襲北越國土 在它海港佈雷
希望藉打擊北越的後勤供應遏止其南下的攻勢
北越撐了3個月之後 願意坐下來和美國人談
但談到十月底 北越忽然不談了
呵呵 諸位看官請想想看11月2日是1972年美國的什麼日子？
北越忽然在十月底從談判桌上抽腿 這是背後有高人指點啊...
話說新中國成立之時 毛澤東曾去莫斯科朝見史達林
史達林對毛說 推動共產主義 歐洲由我來 亞洲由你來
所以後來北越的土改整風一律是請示中共 一律由中共下達指示 這是有解密的檔案可供佐證
北越也曾試圖直接和莫斯科打交道 但是史達林回稱 不行 你們得找毛澤東去
尼克森在11月2日的大選獲得連任成功之後 開過慶功宴 過完慶祝活動
在聖誕節之前退隱大衛營休息一陣子
同時下令發動後衛作戰II 總共出動207架B-52(當時美國手中B-52的半數)
和2,000架戰術轟炸機 歷時10天
決心要把北越炸成石器時代
10天之後 北越屈服 回到談判桌 美越達成協議
從1973年1月起 美軍開始加速撤出越南 尼克森對選民實現了從越戰抽腿的諾言
===
毛澤東浸在游泳池中會見初次來訪的赫魯雪夫
毛澤東在和尼克森握手之後30天之內又放縱北越發動復活節攻勢
毛澤東在尼克森大選前夕要北越代表團從巴黎會場中抽腿
毛澤東的狂妄與反覆只說明了他與瘋子只在一線之隔
更妙的是 尼克森後來因水門案下台 居然又跑到北京去找溫暖 宣稱毛是他真正的朋友
至於一開頭我說的
"尼克森在1971/07月15日已在美國電視網公開宣佈將於隔(1972)年5月之前訪問大陸"
視頻見此： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ps34mVys8o
那究竟是怎麼一回事呢？ 為什麼尼克森沒頭沒腦地宣布這件事？
為什麼本帖開頭那篇土鼈的宣傳品視頻要說成 "基辛格博士第二次访华"？
有一才會有二 那什麼又是第一次呢？ 以下是季辛吉和土鼈的第一次苟合...
BTV档案_绝密飞行-1971年基辛格秘密访华(1971/07月09日)
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JdKlnJOQUs
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASN_dfEw-VQ
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WwpcrCPA88
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdkmctGit2I
所以我說臺灣那些在這個話題上所謂的學者專家寫的東西都是大X
寫了半天 說的是連他們自己也不懂的東西 騙稿費罷了
只要把季辛吉在1971/10月25日當天在北京的會議紀錄公開
一切就可以大白於天下 何需再花什麼功夫去揣測？
但真相有可能藉公開會議紀錄的方式大白於天下嗎？ 在三種情況下有其可能
1. 美國亡國
2. 土鼈亡國
3. 兩岸完成統一 不論是文統還是武統
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我用這篇來開這個越戰帖是因為學而不思則罔
要是不懂正本清源 不知道當年遠在天邊的越戰在結束的過程中 臺灣竟是身處暴風眼
不論往下越戰史講得如何天花亂墜都是枉然
也正因為暴風眼通常是最安靜的場所 所以至今仍然會有臺灣人幻想著台海有事美軍馳援
美軍馳援的條件還是臺灣不惹事
但在臺灣不惹事的情況下 如1971年時刻 碰上了一位恐龍美國總統 ...
所以ROC還要禱告 美國日後不要再出恐龍總統
最後 recap:
1971/07月09日 季辛吉假道巴基斯坦 秘密潛入大陸與周恩來發生第一次接觸
之後 不到一週內
1971/07月15日 尼克森在美國電視網公開宣佈將於隔(1972)年5月之前訪 問大陸
1971/10月20日 季辛吉再次潛入大陸，與周恩來發生第二次接觸。
1971/10月25日 當天兩場會議同步進行 一在紐約 一在北京 與會雙方想要的東西都捏在對方手裡
土共不肯讓步 只有季辛吉讓步才能解決問題
分在兩地舉行的兩場會議結束時 ROC被踢出了聯合國
老布希時任美國駐聯合國大使 對ROC代表團連說抱歉遺憾
從日後其售 ROC 160架F-16A/B 的舉動來看
老布希道歉之語應屬肺腑之言
所以這天 1971年10月20日 美國國務卿季辛吉博士訪華
算是土共成功引爆了一顆外交氫彈 於是進入了土共的外交穢史裡
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Edited by - von_Guo on 12/20/2011 14:41:38 |
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helldog
路人甲乙丙
4791 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 20:31:49
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不靠米國馳援,就算撐1年也是輸,既然無望,連和局都不存在,那還要抵抗嗎?
我願意撐,就是等米國來援嘛,搞不好可以弄個平局,到時有點籌碼上談判之桌,但米國如果確定不來,我的心情就跟1662年的揆一一樣的絕望.
勇氣與耐力的考驗-
以年輕的生命力換取剎那間的永恆 |
Edited by - helldog on 10/25/2011 20:33:37 |
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ryan2181
路人甲乙丙
Taiwan
2298 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 21:01:31
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個人認為~~ USMC + CVBG = 只是來撤僑.....
========================
筆書照肝膽 狂俠亦溫文
"黑色槍騎兵聽令:前方的都是敵人"
Secretary General of IMFS(International Military Fans Society)
銀河系的歷史又翻過了一頁....
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jackguof1273
路人甲乙丙
1314 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 23:46:23
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阿拉說:為聖戰而死,會有七十二個處女在天堂等你。
歐~~阿拉~
歐~~阿拉~
....你腦袋破洞了?
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 03:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by helldog
不靠米國馳援,就算撐1年也是輸,既然無望,連和局都不存在,那還要抵抗嗎?
我願意撐,就是等米國來援嘛,搞不好可以弄個平局,到時有點籌碼上談判之桌,但米國如果確定不來,我的心情就跟1662年的揆一一樣的絕望.
helldog 兄果然是大忙人 沒有時間看那些垃圾的全部
甚至也沒有時間看那些垃圾的重點
"我願意撐" ＜= 有時已不是你願不願意的問題
如果事先人家把你已經在會議桌上賣掉了...我不知道你所謂的籌碼又從何而來？
"既然無望,連和局都不存在,那還要抵抗嗎?" ＜= 一般說來 聰明人是沒事不惹事 有事不怕事
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helldog
路人甲乙丙
4791 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2011 : 00:07:39
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哈..我會錯von_Guo兄整篇文章的意思了,此文如此深澀,含意難懂,小弟魯鈍,至今才弄明白其意.
不過有事不怕事,不代表就能獲得一個美滿的結局.就算準備周全,也只是讓他們南京軍區的軍人陷入泥沼,對其它人影響不大.
就有如米國人民對伊拉克,阿富汗的感覺,跟越戰時不同,反正他們也不用被徵召,鈕開電視機看自家軍人在伊拉克,阿富汗 放煙火.
我想真的打起來,對大部份大陸人感覺也是如此吧,鈕開電視機,看PLA跟台灣人在耍猴,對我們來說是生死之爭,對他們來說是不痛不癢.
勇氣與耐力的考驗-
以年輕的生命力換取剎那間的永恆 |
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
16098 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2011 : 13:31:15
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敝人的老婆與岳母有下去過古芝坑道~我是被導遊嫌胖不建議下去~
果然一進去就卡~~~住~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~ |
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陸戰屋小步兵
版主
7782 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2011 : 13:36:38
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現在美國為了穩住東北亞,不知道會不會在台海問題上有所讓步?
學書未成先習劍
用劍無它A讀書
讀書習劍兩無成
落魄江湖它W負 |
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2011 : 14:14:42
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quote:
Originally posted by 冗丙
敝人的老婆與岳母有下去過古芝坑道~我是被導遊嫌胖不建議下去~
果然一進去就卡~~~住~
所以美軍坑道兵一般都不是彪形大漢
越共挖坑道本來也就是按照他們自己的身材挖的
////
鑽坑道比在地面上和敵人拼刺刀還恐怖
坑道兵是我心目中最帶種的人物
quote:
Originally posted by 陸戰屋小步兵
現在美國為了穩住東北亞,不知道會不會在台海問題上有所讓步?
還是禱告吧 美國不要再出恐龍總統 |
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2012 : 16:18:34
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坑道戰只是一個戰術 將它依附在相關戰役上做平行講解貌似比較合理
鐵三角地區會戰是美軍在越戰中最有朝氣的時段(1966~1967)
看過這些影片之後 沒人能說美軍該期間在越南作戰不努力
無耐每一拳打出去都打在空氣中
勞師動眾的結果 通常就是殺了百把個瘦小營養不良的當地土虌
真正的越共戰鬥主力總是先逃之夭夭...
鏖戰鐵三角(越戰, 1966~1967)
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RQ9tBEbwU
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
16098 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2012 : 16:57:10
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哈~
之前不是有人說過米軍在越南沒被伏擊的很慘還笑我是眼盲~
其實直到各師建立了長程巡邏隊才稍微減被緩伏擊次數~不過那也是1967中後期的事了~
我很早之前就覺得米軍未何不使用類似二戰英軍所空投的地震炸彈~好像有10噸重的樣子??
那種兩節式的炸彈在前段衝入土時引爆後段加深穿透力後引爆造成局部地震~
就算是拜紅土壤之賜不易坍塌的坑道應該也會垮的很慘~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~ |
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LUMBER
我是老鳥
Taiwan
8485 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2012 : 23:51:42
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在首都周邊亂撒炸彈....進接支援就算了,根本沒辦法期望轟對坑道的炸彈那根本無從炸起.遑論早期還不是很在乎的美軍諸將?
倒是催淚瓦斯沒法子弄出這些人來嗎?
有看到這種介紹是第一次.... |
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
16098 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 11:45:33
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瓦斯失效的原因就是跟抽水馬桶/洗手台一樣有水作彎管間格的類似設計(S型)~有的貼心到可放水等你過了再灌滿~
每個小段都有竹門+濕泥巴塊作備用門讓瓦斯無法從出入口灌進去~
同時坑道大部分都有獨立的防水通風管(竹管)~常常每個區塊都有獨立的通風設計~
所以催淚瓦斯與氣燃那種彈對重點防禦坑道沒輒~
我很好奇的是搞這種大工程米越聯軍都沒發覺~一堆廢土那摩容易處理??
看來地陪與村長都赤化啦~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~ |
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dasha
版主
41804 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 12:05:23
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地方確實都赤化了,還有,降雨太多的地方,施工的土堆很容易變成泥土水流掉......這種地道基本上不用擔心沒進水堵不住催淚瓦斯,要擔心的是雨季整個地道通通都是水只能給人魚生活.
美國以前也做過"兩倍地震彈"--四萬磅的炸彈,可是只能由B-36/52這種大傢伙來丟,B-36越戰時已退役,B-52主要還是戰略任務或北越任務,戰術空軍很難叫他們...... |
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Bryan C
路人甲乙丙
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 13:14:51
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| And it's hard to control the CEP, which you will have US troops near by to seal off the area. Just like Daisy Cutter bomb to clear a LZ, US Army would and could only get USAF's tactical air force to use C-130 or other medium transport aircraft to drop big bomb out of rear cargo door(s)---since those real bombers belongs to SAC and very hard to get B-52 to do "in country" missions, unless they abort/scrub their original missions in North Vietnam and had extra fuel and the time to stick around down south.... And those big bombs aren't integrated with B-52 to begin with, and aren't likely to carry them all the way from Guam or Thailand to help out grunts.... |
Edited by - Bryan C on 01/17/2012 13:17:38 |
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27930 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 20:06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by von_Guo
鏖戰鐵三角(越戰, 1966~1967)
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RQ9tBEbwU
沒看這影片我還真不知道澳大利亞軍這麼初期就參與越戰的重大戰鬥。
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》
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rockitten
我是老鳥
Australia
8191 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2012 : 21:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
沒看這影片我還真不知道澳大利亞軍這麼初期就參與越戰的重大戰鬥。
Aussie is one of the earliest participant of the war in Vietnam....
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And at the same time, they are heavily involved in the Malaysia "Emergency" as well
小貓不會作模型，小貓只愛玩模型；看似小貓玩模型，其實模型玩小貓：
A B 補土白膠條，樹脂改套蝕刻片；凹線凸線凹凸線，乾磨水磨銼刀磨；
水性油性消光漆，乾掃手掃噴槍掃；模型一盒三百幾，零件一堆三千幾；
多買多作進步多，買了不作口水多；花錢耗時傷精神，小貓是隻敗家喵。 |
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
16098 Posts |
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2012 : 07:34:10
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圖中路線箭頭可以忽略 因為本人借用的是一張發戰後財的旅遊圖
為了應景與配合時令 先此推出本集第一節 此前的鐵三角與坑道兵本人將於下一貼依序完成
話說1968春節攻勢的主題應在西貢 也正因為如此溪生戰役往往被圈外人忽略
溪生戰役是美軍和北越軍直接的對幹 也就是正式的野戰
即便野戰 猛虎有猛虎的幹法 豺狼也有豺狼的本事
另外 本人話題若不節外生枝 一直在南方打轉 講完之後再談北部 就會令圈外人更誤會這些戰事是線性發生
其實北部與南部的戰事都是同步 尤其到了1968春節攻勢 可以說是共產黨對戰事的一次總結
完完全全是毛澤東造反打天下那套的翻版
1968春節南越千瘡百孔同時潰爛流癑 若非美軍 越南爛政權在當時就收攤掛點了
本套影集中美國人敘述這場戰役花費了很大篇幅 彷彿美國人在訴說: 誰說我們不努力的？
無奈美軍前面花了再大的努力 淌了再多的血 由於歷史的安排 到尼克森和季辛吉手裡都成了竹籃打水一場空
溪生戰役 (Khe Sanh,越戰,1968春節攻勢)
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xJWsSQ1yuA
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
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Bryan C
路人甲乙丙
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2012 : 17:00:04
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>>>所以地面部隊要求B-52空火支援時 我沒聽說過有所謂叫不動的問題
Arc Light is pre-planned missions, worked out days or weeks ahead of the ground battle. The forward air controllers on the ground(in a jeep with radio sets) or flying/loitering in O-1/2 or OV-10 overhead in the battle zone would usually only got to call tactical fighters or attack helo to help the ground units on moment's notice, ie whatever was in the air in the theater already and aircraft already armed on the ground that can be overhead within 30 minutes or so. They would put the available fighters or attack aircraft/helo on a holding stack near the battlefield and slowly worked them over the battlefield to support friendly units and able to make several passes and gave them instant battle damages report on the scene. In B-52's cases, those that can call on moment's notice was those B-52s aborted their pre-planned missions up north and haven't dump their bombs in South China Sea yet, and might be carrying the wrong bombs, and short on fuels.
Also B-52 aren't suitable for the Close Air Support missions were due to the bombs they carried to attack targets up north were usually 750lb, 1,000lb or 2,000lb bombs that will maximize bombing damages while getting better CEP via bigger bombs' blast range. But for CAS down south and with friendly units were around and in close range with the enemy units, those big bombs weren't really suitable for CAS missions. That's why A-1 and A/B-26 were taken out of retirement and used for primary CAS and escorting helicopter forces and to clear LZ ahead of the helo landing force, using much smaller like 250lb or 500lb bombs, FAE bombs, Napalm, 2.75 inch rockets, other weapons and guns or gun pods that's better suited to support ground units.
If you seen the movie "We Were Soldiers" (2002) or "Flight Of The Intruder" (1991), you will seen how the Forward Air Controller(FAC) called out for help in Vietnam War. In case of "We Were Soldiers", when the ground unit CO finally called out the code phrase "Broken Arrow", it forced all FACs and the regional and theater commander to call in all air assets in the theater. And I mean "ALL" air assets to the ground unit that were overrun, and had expressed permission to drop weapons on the unit's own position, plus all artillery support from nearby fire bases, and plus whatever ground units that could move in and get to them in time for support. In those Vietnam vets' term, it's "calling in the whole world" or "calling in the whole god-damn US military" to give support to the unit in needs, short of dropping a nuke.....
And both movies are based on very good book and novel, where the "Flight of the Intruder" by Stephen Coonts was the only second fiction book published by USNI---first novel ever published was "The Hunt For Red October" by Tom Clancy. I would recommend reading them before watching the movies for the full enjoyment and understanding.... |
Edited by - Bryan C on 01/28/2012 17:45:20 |
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dasha
版主
41804 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2012 : 17:56:16
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| 美軍的四萬磅炸彈是二戰後丟的,因為二戰時核彈是高度機密,在不知道有核彈的情況下,就設計了類似英國那些大炸彈的傢伙,但是核彈公佈後,這種只有B-36可以丟的玩具就沒意義了,因此不曾出現在任何戰爭中,老實說有沒有完成版小弟也懷疑,不過在金氏紀錄上看過相關的文字,或許有原型. |
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von_Guo
路人甲乙丙
4430 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2012 : 05:34:14
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>>> Arc Light is pre-planned missions, worked out days or weeks ahead of the ground battle. <<<
Your comments are useful to my words. Actually they made mine clearer.
It's true that the B-52s were not used for on-call. However, if the ground troops did need B-52s' CAS, their high command would support them and approve their requests. By arrangement, they could get it, just needing to place their orders ahead, as you said. It's a fact and it happened in the Khe Sanh Battle.
Of course you don't need to wait until I finish my translation on that part. So you can view it yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dh-qZV7l-g
Or perhaps you already knew the story that at the final stage, those B-52s played a key role to save those marines there. |
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Bryan C
路人甲乙丙
USA
1455 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2012 : 06:13:29
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US airstrike targets usually go by the FRAG list of the day(still the case today) that the regional/theater commander/HQ in Saigon drew up the target list for the day maybe in the last 24 hours or couple of days beforehand, generated from local commander's needs. The B-52's and F-105's target list in North Vietnam came down directly from Joint Chief of Staff in Pentagon or the US President/White House in Washington DC, which the target list was drew up days to weeks ago based on political objectives of the week or month, or what happen at the negotiation talk/table.
So the two targeting lists usually aren't the same, one for tactical targets based on local commanders' needs, the other for more strategic targets usually up north for political objectives based on Pentagon/White House's political objectives. Then there's the on-call situation that those fighter/attack aircraft or attack helo squadrons based in South Vietnam or Thailand, plus those Navy and Marines squadrons on carriers on Yankee Station would keep few planes on hot pad 5/15 minutes alert status, plus those aircraft already in the air but abort their existing attack plans, or those returning to base but still have few weapons or full load of 20mm rounds. Those are what FAC can have on moment's notice. FAC might able to divert aircraft from planned missions---only if the people in the theater HQ in Saigon allows it.
It's a awesome sight to see the B-52 carpet bombing when you're on the ground, which is pretty much all they could do---"one pass, haul ass" for the B-52 cell/formation----they just couldn't come back to do another run after dropping all the eggs. But they have to do it very far away from friendly troops, or the combination of B-52's lousy CEP with iron bombs, and the number of big bombs they carries, plus the fact it's possible the navigator and bombardier might be asleep and the whole B-52 cell or formation is off course by few miles.....
I've read a few books on FACs, and knew a few of them that after the war moved on to keep flying OV-10 for the CalFire (California Fire fighting agency) that still uses OV-10 as fire incident controller to command and control air water tankers or lead them into the fire through the thick smokes. One thing they said about B-52 strikes is---keep everyone that's flying in the air at least 10 miles away from where B-52 supposed to strike----Because B-52 is so far up there that even the FACs didn't know where they are or if the B-52 are where they say they should be. And once the eggs start to drop, you don't want to be caught under it, doesn't matter if you're on the ground or in the air.....
The other movie involved with Forward Air Controller is BAT 21, plus the 2 books on it. Just from my bad memory, I think Taiwan's Reader's Digest might had a portion of the first book in a condensed version back in 1980s.....
On a side note, for North Vietnam Army and VietCong down south, killing fighter pilots or attack/bomber pilots weren't the number 1 goal. The number 1 target is the FAC and gets the highest rewards, be it those FAC flying in the air, or the FAC-Ground on a jeep that has lots of antennas---all because they knew FACs were the one that calls in the airstrike. So taking FACs out of the picture and out of the chain of command, no more airstrikes would come, and much easier time to get close and personal with US GIs in the battlefield.
And for a period of time, even US ground units in the frontline battlefield(especially those higher up command type in the brigade/regiment/division/Corps HQ) didn't want the FAC-Ground with them in the HQ and wanted them into a separate area---so when the enemy attacks and sees the FAC-Ground, they would go for that and wouldn't attack the HQ weenies.... But for those FAC-Ground attached to field deployed units like battalions, those ground units protected those FAC-Ground like God himself, since they also knew he's the only link to call in airstrikes to help the ground unit's chance to survive..... |
Edited by - Bryan C on 01/29/2012 11:04:36 |
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陸戰屋小步兵
版主
7782 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2012 : 11:56:06
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>>無奈美軍前面花了再大的努力 淌了再多的血 由於歷史的安排 到尼克森和季辛吉手裡都成了竹籃打水一場空<<
前天與某消息人士吃飯，聽他所言，再來看這句，感觸特別深。
很多問題的癥結在文官層面，軍方只在枝節糾纏根本無濟於事。
學書未成先習劍
用劍無它A讀書
讀書習劍兩無成
落魄江湖它W負 |
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越戰篇(視頻翻譯)
