| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MANINAU |
Posted - 03/11/2013 : 12:52:15
1968年,日本超越西德成為世界第2經濟體.那曾經的帝國呢?
戰前的大英帝國戰後山窮水盡,但何以如此不濟 ? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MACOS8 |
Posted - 04/25/2013 : 01:41:59
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
找了不少文章，到目前为止的文章说的都是新加坡政府的远景，好像没有一个说新加坡政府已经把远景变成现实实现自给自足目标了吧？
新加坡在2011年的島內最大供水量已經足夠供應當年每日的用水需求，但你不可能每天產能全開製水。
另外由於新加坡人口快速成長，用水量增加的速度極快，再加上2061跟馬來西亞的供水協訂中止，因此新加坡現在看的是要在2061年前完成全面自主供水的能力。這些供水中預計將有將近80%的水會從回收跟淡化水來，只有20%是從當地水庫供應。而目前如果新加坡要自主供水的話，50%左右的水要從當地水庫供應。 |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/23/2013 : 17:04:04
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore#Water_sources_and_integrated_management
By 2011, demand: 380 million imperial gallons/day
domestic supply: local reservoir: 200-300 million gallons/day; NEWwater: up to 115 million imperial gallons/per day; Seawater desalination: up to 50 million imperial gallons/day; So in fact the capacity of domestic water is enough to cover the daily water demand of Singapore.
=====================
I can't find the original report now, but in 2011 Singapore claimed their domestic water supply is enough to meet their water demand. However, they still import the water from Malaysia because the price is way lower than the cost of the domestic water.
Since then, their goal is to meet the 2061 expire date and the growth of population. The projection is they will be able to cover the entire water demand before 2061 by the domestic water, even if the water demand is doubled from the demand of 2011.
You can find their current plan online easily.
找了不少文章，到目前为止的文章说的都是新加坡政府的远景，好像没有一个说新加坡政府已经把远景变成现实实现自给自足目标了吧？ |
| MACOS8 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 14:13:46
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore#Water_sources_and_integrated_management
By 2011, demand: 380 million imperial gallons/day
domestic supply: local reservoir: 200-300 million gallons/day; NEWwater: up to 115 million imperial gallons/per day; Seawater desalination: up to 50 million imperial gallons/day; So in fact the capacity of domestic water is enough to cover the daily water demand of Singapore.
=====================
I can't find the original report now, but in 2011 Singapore claimed their domestic water supply is enough to meet their water demand. However, they still import the water from Malaysia because the price is way lower than the cost of the domestic water.
Since then, their goal is to meet the 2061 expire date and the growth of population. The projection is they will be able to cover the entire water demand before 2061 by the domestic water, even if the water demand is doubled from the demand of 2011.
You can find their current plan online easily. |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:28:11
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
Afterall Hong Kong still have choices in obtaining water supply elsewhere at the expense of paying the increased price of water bill.
Current problem is a mixed development on over-relying, lack of investment in water supply network and abandon in major water collection plans due to the reunion with China.
港英政府情愿增加对大陆的依赖也不愿意发展香港供水自给自足。别把什么责任都推到大陆头上来。 |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:26:44
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。 |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:03:31
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
1. It is a cheaper alternative than building a reservoir at that time, and the Brits wanted to have warmer relationship with China after the riot in 1967, that's it.
2. Hong Kong do survive without China's food for quite long time from late 40's to late 70's, and under the globalization world we have much more alternative choices of food now, which is another fact.
3. Again please read a bit more history of Hong Kong NOT FROM China. There are quite a lot of perceptions and errors.
1、要替换香港供水量70%的供水是不可能的，另外你没任何数据成本和依据的论点毫无可信度。
2、中国提供给香港的重点是新鲜食物，地理就决定了这个不可能。
3、谁立论谁举证，你自己都找不到要我替你找？可笑。 |
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 12:28:25
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
Afterall Hong Kong still have choices in obtaining water supply elsewhere at the expense of paying the increased price of water bill.
Current problem is a mixed development on over-relying, lack of investment in water supply network and abandon in major water collection plans due to the reunion with China. |
| MACOS8 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 12:17:39
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water. |
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 11:59:05
1. Simple. Distillation plant, which is even more stable than having water supply from China, tried, tested, and successful before
2. Under the globalization world, even China can't provide there are so many other countries that can provide food, and their price can be even lower
3. Please find the information from places other than China, thank you. |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/21/2013 : 00:25:38
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
2、全球化背景下大陆食品不需要卖给香港也有买家，香港要买食品容易，要买到足够廉价的食品很不容易。
3、任何论点都需要足够的数据，没数据的论点是没法给你可信度的。 |
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 14:59:25
1. It is a cheaper alternative than building a reservoir at that time, and the Brits wanted to have warmer relationship with China after the riot in 1967, that's it.
2. Hong Kong do survive without China's food for quite long time from late 40's to late 70's, and under the globalization world we have much more alternative choices of food now, which is another fact.
3. Again please read a bit more history of Hong Kong NOT FROM China. There are quite a lot of perceptions and errors. |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 14:42:35
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
Well the fact is Hong Kong did use ULCC as water transporter in the 60s when drought strike. Fact.
The percentage of waste of fresh water in Hong Kong is much higher than in other developed places, due to lack of investment in changing the water tubes in the 90s. Quite a lot of fresh water tubes are over 30 or even 40 years old and waiting to be replaced. A large scale replacement project is on-going and will reduce greatly wastage.
I hope you do understand that "多年以來" in there actually means years ago, and multiple years, which Hong Kong people people surely knows it's early 60s to 80s, when Hong Kong is China's major consumer of food, especially canned food.
1、事实是香港缺水才导致港英政府不得不和大陆谈供水问题，如果香港能靠自己自力更生解决，巴不得香港不和大陆联系的港英政府除非全是共谍，否则没理由给大陆送钱加深香港对大陆的依赖。
另外提醒下，一个以制造业为主的香港对水的需求会比以金融服务业为主的香港高很多，制造业很难接受一个连水都无法保障供应的城市发展，而香港作为四小龙的崛起，主要恰好是靠制造业和出口。
2、所谓香港浪费水比例远高于其他发达国家，请拿论文和数据对比说话，不然我只能认为这和那位香港人所谓香港不需要大陆供水，香港不需要大陆食品一样都是根本不查数据的错误观点。
3、那位香港人说的肯定不是60-80年代，他说供水问题所谓香港去工业化已经用水量大幅度降低，这肯定说的不是60-80年代，而是90-现在。
而他说的所谓香港是大陆除了北朝鲜外唯一食品买家，这肯定也说的不是60-80年代，那时候北朝鲜依靠苏联经济状态比大陆好得多。
另外，60和70年代中国食品产量还不够，能出口的比较少，如果香港不购买食品，大陆会很高兴可以自己用，而到80年代如我之前引用数据显示的，要购买大陆食品的远不只香港一家。
所以，那位香港人所谓的香港不需要大陆供水和香港人是大陆食品唯一买家全是毫无依据的错误观点。
|
| MANINAU |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 13:45:50
請版主封鎖此版 |
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 10:45:15
Well the fact is Hong Kong did use ULCC as water transporter in the 60s when drought strike. Fact.
The percentage of waste of fresh water in Hong Kong is much higher than in other developed places, due to lack of investment in changing the water tubes in the 90s. Quite a lot of fresh water tubes are over 30 or even 40 years old and waiting to be replaced. A large scale replacement project is on-going and will reduce greatly wastage.
I hope you do understand that "多年以來" in there actually means years ago, and multiple years, which Hong Kong people people surely knows it's early 60s to 80s, when Hong Kong is China's major consumer of food, especially canned food. |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 21:17:33
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
It will be quite interesting if people integrate the statistics of wasting fresh water due to flood gate opening, leakage of fresh water tunnels, etc with the water supply from China, an interesting conclusion can be made.
Of course I DIDN'T SAY that the fresh water supply from China is totally unnecessary, but well I know you can't read lol.
There are various alternative water supply plan from the Hong Kong Government (in case of drought in China), from hiring ULCC filled with fresh water (practiced in 60s and 70s) to renting water desalination vessels (several are operating in the Gulf region already)
For the food supply, the period that it mentioned was from early 60s to early 80s, which Hong Kong is the major purchaser of their food products. Or maybe can you find statistics of food export of China from early 60s to early 80s? Thanks a lot!
1、浪费也是用水量的一部分，各个地区和国家都有浪费，别忘记香港还是热带。大陆的供水已经不是有必要没必要的问题，每年占据香港用水量70%的供应量意味着这是香港主要水来源，再节约可以把香港每年用水量节约70%？
至于说代替方案，香港是个和大陆相连的半岛，你还真准备用油轮运输淡水？成本呢？再这种成本下香港的经济呢？
2、那篇文章YY的是，香港是大陆目前（而不是什么60-80年代）唯一的食品买家，他连日本是大陆最大食品买家都不知道。他YY的是香港离开大陆没关系，食品和饮水都可以解决，完全是不看数字的想当然。
说到大陆食品贸易：
http://www.studa.net/guojimaoyi/110214/16120526.html
从中国食品出口与进口贸易额的差额来看，中国是食品的净出口国，除2004年外，1985年一2005年间中国食品贸易差额均为顺差，其中1994年最高，食品贸易顺差达到71亿美元，到2005年降至30．94亿美元，2006年食品贸易顺差为49．47亿美元。
大陆粮食问题真正解决要到70年代石油和化肥工业真正搞起来才完成的。
|
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 11:56:22
It will be quite interesting if people integrate the statistics of wasting fresh water due to flood gate opening, leakage of fresh water tunnels, etc with the water supply from China, an interesting conclusion can be made.
Of course I DIDN'T SAY that the fresh water supply from China is totally unnecessary, but well I know you can't read lol.
There are various alternative water supply plan from the Hong Kong Government (in case of drought in China), from hiring ULCC filled with fresh water (practiced in 60s and 70s) to renting water desalination vessels (several are operating in the Gulf region already)
For the food supply, the period that it mentioned was from early 60s to early 80s, which Hong Kong is the major purchaser of their food products. Or maybe can you find statistics of food export of China from early 60s to early 80s? Thanks a lot! |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/18/2013 : 10:51:19
quote:
Originally posted by user72011
看到閣下激動成這個樣子還真不知道誰在鬧笑話,還真擔心閣下氣壞了身體
如果水是中國無私奉獻給香港的話,就不會有這麼多香港人批評港府的水資源政策與要求開發自主水源了.不過照閣下的邏輯只要香港向中國買水,買糧食就該對中國感恩戴德,還真讓人想到黑社會電影中黑幫老大的作風呢,呵呵.
港 多 購 東 江 水 今 年 虛 耗 五 億
http://www.singtao.com/yesterday/loc/1201ao11.html
無拖無欠的東江水
http://thehousenews.com/finance/%E7%84%A1%E6%8B%96%E7%84%A1%E6%AC%A0%E7%9A%84%E6%9D%B1%E6%B1%9F%E6%B0%B4/
減用東江水 專家倡多建海水化淡廠
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realtime/news/20130320/51308379
别气急败坏的转移话题，你既然引用了那位香港人的发言，并以之作为证据证明香港离开大陆没饭吃是谎言，那当然是赞同那位香港人的观点，麻烦你解释下，大陆引水占香港供水量7成的情况下如何香港不需要大陆供水？不过是大陆食品出口额的十分之一的香港如何成了大陆唯一食品买家？
如果你没话可反驳，那是否放弃你的论点？是还是不是？
|
| user72011 |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 20:31:16
看到閣下激動成這個樣子還真不知道誰在鬧笑話,還真擔心閣下氣壞了身體
如果水是中國無私奉獻給香港的話,就不會有這麼多香港人批評港府的水資源政策與要求開發自主水源了.不過照閣下的邏輯只要香港向中國買水,買糧食就該對中國感恩戴德,還真讓人想到黑社會電影中黑幫老大的作風呢,呵呵.
港 多 購 東 江 水 今 年 虛 耗 五 億
http://www.singtao.com/yesterday/loc/1201ao11.html
無拖無欠的東江水
http://thehousenews.com/finance/%E7%84%A1%E6%8B%96%E7%84%A1%E6%AC%A0%E7%9A%84%E6%9D%B1%E6%B1%9F%E6%B0%B4/
減用東江水 專家倡多建海水化淡廠
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/realtime/news/20130320/51308379 |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 18:35:06
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
Did I mention it's totally not necessary?
数据说明一切，感觉毫无意义。
缺不缺水，供水量和用水量说明一切。 |
| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 18:14:26
Did I mention it's totally not necessary? |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 18:09:40
quote:
Originally posted by user72011
>>画个靶子打是没意义的，阁下还是解释下大陆如何给台湾人洗脑的，以至于台湾人都认为香港是靠大陆吃饭吧。顺便解释下连基本的大陆食品出口和香港饮用水情况都弄错的你引用文如何能作为香港不靠大陆的立论证据吧，又获得阁下放弃这个立论了？
SK2x2網友前面已經回應閣下的論點,閣下要一直選擇性無視我也是沒有辦法,話說回來只要用英文回覆閣下,閣下都會把這些回覆當作空氣一樣不存在嗎?
你已经连发言先后都分不清了？难怪你的观点老闹笑话。
我要求不高，别转移话题，你既然引用了那位香港人的发言，并以之作为证据证明香港离开大陆没饭吃是谎言，那当然是赞同那位香港人的观点，你所谓的朝鲜战争爆发，大陆和香港贸易停止的笑话我就不说了，麻烦你解释下下面问题，你的论点如何成立？如果你没话可反驳，那是否放弃你的论点？
1、多年以來中國大陸生產的糧食除了內地人外基本沒人會買, 而香港卻一直願意接受, 是大陸糧食品的主要客戶(有可能是唯一的, 因為其他"客戶"如朝鮮等是從來不會付款給中國)。
http://www.21food.cn/html/news/27/734033.htm
2012年1-12月，中国出口食品金额为512.0亿美元，同比增长
1.7%。2012年12月，中国出口食品金额为52.8亿美元，环比增长
7.1%，同比出口金额下降0.3%。
2012年1-12月，中国进口食品金额为450.7亿美元，同比增长
22.2%。2012年12月，中国进口食品金额为42.7亿美元，环比增长
8.9%，同比进口金额增长0.3%。
也就是说起码到2012年为止，中国食品还是出口比进口多的国家！！！
2012年1-12月，自中国进口食品的国家和地区中，按金额排名
第一位是日本，金额为1,018,185.8万美元，同比增长6.2%；
第二位是香港，金额为584,504.6万美元，同比增长13.5%；
第三位是美国，金额为570,180.1万美元，同比增长2.8%。
2012年1-12月，对中国出口食品的国家和地区中，按金额排名
第一位是美国，金额为638,378.9万美元，同比增长28.3%；
第二位是印度尼西亚，金额为430,338.2万美元，同比增长20.1%；
第三位是马来西亚，金额为412,291.5万美元，同比下降16.0%。
看清楚，那个香港人连查一下大陆贸易数字都不查就在那里信口雌黄的扯淡！！！
2、事實是, 即使中國不再賣水, 香港也不會"玩完"。香港早就不再需要購買如此多東江水。香港工業用水早已所淨無幾, 本地的食水供應早已大致足夠提供 --- 不以天價買這些河水, 這筆驚人費用也足夠從其他地方引入。
由於中國跟香港, 在這方面是正式的簽合同購買的, 純粹的商業行為。水務署還要跑去主動跟中國談, 才能稍為減少每年的購買量。對於這種這樣的「買賣行為」, 沒有任何必要"感謝"甚麼人; 如同我所說的, 要感謝, 應該是中國感謝香港。
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/香港供水
他引用的维基自己就在打他的脸，这里写的很清楚，
第一，香港自己饮用水根本就不够。
以下为2003年至2011年各年度的供水消耗量 (以百万立方米为单位)：[18]
淡水 2003年至2004年 2004年至2005年 2005年至2006年 2006年至2007年 2007年至2008年 2008年至2009年 2009年至2010年 2010年至2011年
每年耗用量 963.99 954.62 966.92 963.59 950 957.31 949.13 930.94
以下为2003年至2009年各年度的降水量及供水量：
集水量 (百万立方米) 2003年至2004年 2004年至2005年 2005年至2006年 2006年至2007年 2007年至2008年 2008年至2009年
旧水塘组 112.34 58.49 122.31 110.23 87.07 113.52
船湾淡水湖及万宜水库 140.09 51.66 176.74 208.21 100.67 219.00
从广东省输入水量 764.40 815.28 729.64 613.17 754.28 620.76
合计 1 016.83 925.43 1 028.69 931.61 942.02 953.28
大陆提供用水量差不多7成，香港的食水每日消耗量为262万立方米。麻烦他乘以一年自己算算。没有大陆供水，本地的食水供應早已大致足夠提供？说梦话吗？
第二，不買這些河水, 這筆驚人費用也足夠從其他地方引入？他准备从那里引水？香港是个靠着大陆的半岛和小岛，他准备用油轮运输还是在海里铺设运水管道？ |
| xk2008 |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 18:04:13
quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
Some dudes think that the water supply from China was so essential, while the fact of how many times the flood gate of those reservoirs opened due to overload was not being mentioned, with the Plover Cove Reservoir wasting the most water, emptying water more than it's size every year.
Why did I mention the Plover Cove Reservoir? This is the only reservoir that connect with China to take its water.
没有数据的论点是没根据的，上边那位引用的香港白痴自己引用的资料说明一切：当大陆每年供水量占香港每年用水量的70%的时候你说啥香港不需要大陆供水？把香港供水量削减50%再说吧。
以下为2003年至2011年各年度的供水消耗量 (以百万立方米为单位)：[18]
淡水 2003年至2004年 2004年至2005年 2005年至2006年 2006年至2007年 2007年至2008年 2008年至2009年 2009年至2010年 2010年至2011年
每年耗用量 963.99 954.62 966.92 963.59 950 957.31 949.13 930.94
以下为2003年至2009年各年度的降水量及供水量：
集水量 (百万立方米) 2003年至2004年 2004年至2005年 2005年至2006年 2006年至2007年 2007年至2008年 2008年至2009年
旧水塘组 112.34 58.49 122.31 110.23 87.07 113.52
船湾淡水湖及万宜水库 140.09 51.66 176.74 208.21 100.67 219.00
从广东省输入水量 764.40 815.28 729.64 613.17 754.28 620.76
合计 1 016.83 925.43 1 028.69 931.61 942.02 953.28
大陆提供用水量差不多7成，香港的食水每日消耗量为262万立方米。麻烦他乘以一年自己算算。没有大陆供水，本地的食水供應早已大致足夠提供？说梦话吗？
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| MANINAU |
Posted - 04/17/2013 : 10:32:39
何必要人生攻擊呢？大陸和台灣的確有很多不同，但總可以大家尊重吧！ |
| user72011 |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 17:23:15
>>画个靶子打是没意义的，阁下还是解释下大陆如何给台湾人洗脑的，以至于台湾人都认为香港是靠大陆吃饭吧。顺便解释下连基本的大陆食品出口和香港饮用水情况都弄错的你引用文如何能作为香港不靠大陆的立论证据吧，又获得阁下放弃这个立论了？
SK2x2網友前面已經回應閣下的論點,閣下要一直選擇性無視我也是沒有辦法,話說回來只要用英文回覆閣下,閣下都會把這些回覆當作空氣一樣不存在嗎?
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| SK2x2 |
Posted - 04/16/2013 : 11:09:55
Some dudes think that the water supply from China was so essential, while the fact of how many times the flood gate of those reservoirs opened due to overload was not being mentioned, with the Plover Cove Reservoir wasting the most water, emptying water more than it's size every year.
Why did I mention the Plover Cove Reservoir? This is the only reservoir that connect with China to take its water. |
