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BlueWhaleMoon
我是老鳥
13096 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2025 : 08:49:24
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quote: Originally posted by ki1
quote: Originally posted by BlueWhaleMoon
quote: Originally posted by ki1 CSIS兵推已經顯示維持海上航道不只是盟友的事情,需要(至少一部分)自己來
請問那一頁那一行有這個?
不只一頁一行,而是處處如此
沒有蟲洞的話,實際上無法運輸部隊的更深含意是無法運輸各種物資,遲早長春太原擇一重演 頁碼106(PDF112) Once the conflict starts, Chinese air and naval units surrounded the island. The resulting Chinese defensive zone was so dense that no cargo ships could get through, and the danger to airlift aircraft was extreme. In one iteration, an attempt to insert a U.S. Army brigade onto Taiwan by air resulted in two of the three battalions (roughly 2,000 soldiers) being destroyed in the air
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Base Scenario,共軍掩護登陸艦隊做法之一即為大量艦艇在台灣以東積極行動 此時美海軍損失已不低, 文中提到的各方,台灣顯然是技術上最有可能加強海上戰力的 (把老船換掉,就是倍數級的提升)
CSIS沒有這麼說,這是腦補
quote:
頁碼86(92) Sound Chinese strategy could mitigate, but not stop, this attrition of the amphibious fleet. China has a substantial fleet of modern warships, and most Chinese teams placed SAGs, comprised of cruisers, destroyers, and frigates, to the east of Taiwan to serve as air and missile defense pickets. They also dispatched submarines further into the Western Pacific to keep U.S. surface forces at bay. These slowed attrition to the amphibious fleet while making the surface combatants themselves more vulnerable to attack. ... 88(94)
In all iterations of the base scenario, U.S. Navy losses included two U.S. aircraft carriers as well as between 7 and 20 other major surface warships (e.g., destroyers and cruisers).
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Pessimistic Scenarios 需要船團強行突破,這裡也包括台灣 頁碼90(96) For Taiwan,the United States, and its partners, this would have required running convoys to the island under air and missile attack. 但兵推中台灣近海船舶損失極高,且讓美日在投入海上戰力時猶豫 此時要維持運輸船團: a.台灣自己來,
CSIS從未說台灣自己來,這是腦補
quote:
b.台灣的海上戰力讓事情不這麼嚴重
CSIS沒有這麼說,這是腦補
quote:
頁碼94(100) The pessimistic scenarios often provided fewer naval reinforcements during the first several weeks of the conflict. The greater surviving Chinese capabilities tended to make the U.S./Japanese player more cautious with the use of surface forces. Any surface ship that approached Taiwan was destroyed in both scenarios, and the remainder were often not a high priority for China since they posed only a limited threat to the Chinese operation.
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Taiwan Stands Alone 除了直接提到彈藥短缺外,亦可以想想其他各種物資 頁碼96(102) First, Taiwan’s operations would be weakened by a long-term shortage in ammunition. The scenario assumed that after two months of operations, ammunition shortages would force Taiwan to fire half as frequently, with a corresponding reduction in effectiveness. After three months, ammunition exhaustion forces artillery crews to be reformed into infantry units.
CSIS沒有說台灣自己護航運補彈藥
====== 首先感謝ki兄的整理
但是我看起來每個地方都是曲解與腦補"台灣自己來護航運補"
== 唯一支持蔡總統國防預算占GDP3%政策 |
Edited by - BlueWhaleMoon on 01/15/2025 08:54:35 |
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teamgod311
路人甲乙丙
763 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2025 : 12:16:05
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quote: Originally posted by damau
守勢作戰遇戰防雷機會較小,因為會拖慢進攻速度/途徑,但也不是不可能,新一代戰防雷可設定時間或遙控引爆.不過運用機會還是不大.M113在烏克蘭有中雷視屏,基本上在那視屏全員生還逃脫,看起來還算可以的. 雲豹至少一次機會也是沒準,打過仗誰知道,何況鋼板裂紋的消息更讓人對其防護力打問號.
至於廢氣問題,烏克蘭也有不少其他歐洲國家給的老M113,看視屏運兵時上蓋常被打開,聽説國軍也有裝增壓的M113,過去演習時沒聽過有哪個兵坐在M113上中毒,情況應沒想像嚴重. 把M113當成騾子,別把他當戰馬就對了.
好人做99件好事,但只要1件壞事就永遠被人記仇,雲豹有不少弊案,但沒有解決嗎? 你有問過部隊的使用情況嗎?和M113/CM21的比較是否有進步嗎?還是你喜歡桿子開車? 還有陸軍現在的戰術需求不同過去,建軍規劃都是長期討論和長年實際運用下產物, 不是個人喜好就決定,我尊重他們選擇,雖然有些地方真的讓人不解就是, 但至少是台美軍事專家的共識,非南海聽床師盜聽胡說,雲豹這麼差勁早就改外購, CM31很多問題沒解決也沒過戰評不就沒量產,那怕他是台灣的第一次國造輪甲照樣擋。
如果要改造M113A1//A2/CM21到美國的M113A3水準,各位有考慮過價錢和數量嗎? 鋁合金的車體真的都沒老化嗎?你升級老車註定會壓縮到外購和國造新武器研發, 這樣真的值得嗎?那還不如美國買M113A3,反正他們也要除役和汰除, 但這又回到原點,當初雲豹是為了取代M113/CM21,你這麼做又是回到全履甲化, 而履甲的沿伸問題你一項都沒解決,完全變回保守派,那個怕這個怕,怕花錢買輪甲, 和過去陸軍過去一樣,只要60分,沒有打算突破框架和嘗試,又在打上世代戰爭。
M113要完全取代是目標,從來沒有說沒配套和足夠雲豹2或其他外購車就全部除役, 正常建軍你舊裝除役就要有後輩來填位子,不然就是用新科技改善接戰效率, 用更少的兵力達到以前大量才有的戰力,誰會躺平或自暴自棄把所有戰力砍掉。
我不反對留部分M113/CM21改裝,但前提不動到動力和昂貴的改裝, 裝個槍盾+柵欄甲+改善滅火和核生化系統已經是極限,再大改就和M60升級案一樣, 能買M1A2T你還大升級M60變得毫無意義,真的要大升級也該是2X年前,而不是現在。 |
Edited by - teamgod311 on 01/15/2025 12:16:43 |
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小毛
我是老鳥
Taiwan
10906 Posts |
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cph0516
路人甲乙丙
5553 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2025 : 12:39:12
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外島是必定會放棄的 要兩棲車輛做啥?
離島 以台灣周邊惡劣海象.M113這種的必定沉入海底 運輸東西 古老平底登陸艇.反而比較好用.而且便宜太多了 |
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yangly3
我是老鳥
7786 Posts |
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ki1
路人甲乙丙
5952 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2025 : 21:13:50
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quote: Originally posted by BlueWhaleMoon
首先感謝ki兄的整理
但是我看起來每個地方都是曲解與腦補"台灣自己來護航運補"
稍加推理,就知道台灣(至少一部分)自己維持海上航線是技術上(或實際上)最可行的解決方案
最明顯的情境:Taiwan Stands Alone 如同標題,台灣不自己維持,就不會有其他人維持 (當然,積極推動物理研究,早日讓蟲洞商轉或許也可以)
其次情境:Pessimistic Scenarios 對比這類情境美海軍大致上是勉強打贏,誰還有餘力維持航線? For Taiwan,the United States, and its partners, this would have required running convoys to the island under air and missile attack. |
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