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 ¬ü°êªº¥Í¬¡»PªÀ·|¦ÊºA - 4
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pcgamer
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10079 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2011 :  21:33:23  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send pcgamer a Private Message
¥xÆW¦b¾x¬Y­Ó­ûĵ³Q­¢¥Îºj±¾±¼¤@­Ó®³¤M­n¬å¥LªººÆ¤l¡A¬ü°ê³oºØ¨Æ¥ó¤]¨S¤Ö¹L¡A³Ìªñ¤@«h¬Oµo¥Í¦bª÷¤sÆW°Ï±¶¹B(BART)ªº¨Æ¥ó¡G
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/dual-investigation-into-fatal-bart-station-shooting/
Officers Involved In Fatal BART Station Shooting On Paid Leave

¤W¬P´Á±¶¹BÁ`¾÷Àò³ø¦³­Ó°s¾K¨k¤l®³µÛ¤@²~¶}»\ªº°s¦b¤ë¥x¤W·n·n®Ì®Ì¡A©úÅã¹H¤ÏBART³W©w¡A¬£¤F¾nBARTĵ¹î¹L¥h¡A¤À§O¬O¤@¦W¥Õ¤H¸ò¤@¦W¨È¸Ç­ûĵ¡C¨ì¤F²{³õ«áÂù¤èªº¹ï«Ï¶}©l¡A¸Ó¦W°s¾K¨k¤l¨­¤W¦³±a¤M¡AÁÙ®³µÛ¯}¸Hªº°s²~¹ïµÛ­ûĵ´§»R¡AÁöµM¨ä¤¤¤@¦W­ûĵ°t¦³Taser¡A¦ý¬OÁÙ¬O¿ï¾Ü©Þºj¥X¨Ó©ñ­Ë¥L¡C¤§«á¸Ó¦W°s¾K¨k¤lºò«æ°e©¹Âå°|¡A¹L¨S¦h¤[´N±¾¤F¡C¨â¦W­ûĵ¨ä¤¤¤@¤H¥u³Q¸H¬Á¼þ¹º¶Ë¡A°£¦¹¤§¥~³£¨S¨Æ¡C²{¦b¨â¦W­ûĵ³£¼È®É°±Â¾¡Aµ¥«Ý¬ÛÃö½Õ¬d¡C

³o¥ó¨Æ±¡²{¦b¬O¨S§¹¨S¤F¡A¬ü°ê¤]¦³¤@°ï¡yÁ¿¤HÅv¡zªº¶m¥Á¡A¦b¬Q¤Ñ±ß¤W¶°µ²¤j¾xBART¡A§Üij­n¨D¨º¨â¦ì­ûĵ¤@©w­n³Q¤õ±¼¡AÁÙ­n³Q¥H¿Ñ±þ¸o¦æ°_¶D¡A¨Ã­n¨D°®¯Ü¸Ñ´²BARTĵ°È³æ¦ì¡C¥L­Ì¤j½|µÛ¡§No justice, no peace, disband the BART police¡¨, ¡§Cops, pigs, murderers.¡¨¡C
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/07/11/sf-bart-police-shooting-protest-planned-at-civic-center-station/
SF Protest Over BART Police Shooting Disrupts Service

¤£¹LBARTªºÄµ°È³¡ªù¤§«e´N¦³¤£¨}ªº°õ¶Ô°O¿ý¤F¡A2009¦~·s¦~©]¨º¼Î®×¤l¤j®aÁ٫ܤõ¤j¡Aĵ¹î®Ú¥»´N¬Oªñ¶ZÂ÷ºj¨M¤@¦W¦­´N³Q¦P¤¯µ¹¨îªA¦b¦a¤W¡A¤]®Ú¥»¨SªZ¾¹ªº«C¦~¡C¨º¦W­ûĵ¦bªk°|¶i¦æ¼f§P«Å§P®É¡A¤@°ï¤H¦bªk°|¥~ÀY¥sÄÛ¡A­n¥L¦ºªº«ÜÃø¬Ý..........


Edited by - pcgamer on 07/12/2011 21:34:31
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2011 :  22:08:19  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

¦³¨Ç³Y²§,­^»y³oºØ«÷­µ¤å¦r¤]·|¦³¤åª¼?
«÷­µ¦rÀ³¸Ó®e©ö¾Ç¤~¹ï ¦Ü¤Ö¤ñ¤è¶ô¦r¶H§Î¦r¦n¾Ç


they can speak the languages doesn't mean they can read and write if no one teach them those alphabets

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
¦h¶R¦h§@¶i¨B¦h¡A¶R¤F¤£§@¤f¤ô¦h¡Fªá¿ú¯Ó®É¶Ëºë¯«¡A¤p¿ß¬O°¦±Ñ®aØp¡C
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von_Guo
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

4430 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2011 :  23:12:23  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send von_Guo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by huangmin95

¥Î¶}¨®¨Ó¤ñ³ë¦n¤F

¦³¤@ºØ¤H¬O¦Ò¹L¾r·Ó¡A¦ý¬O¤£·|¤W¸ô¡A¤@¤W¸ô´Nºò±i¶}ªººCºC­nÂणÂà¡A³o´N¬O¥xÆW¤Hªº­^¤å¡A·|¤£·|¶}¨®¡H³£¦Ò¹L¾r·Óºâ¬O·|§a¡A¦UºØ¶}¨®­nª`·Nªºªk¥O¤]¤F¸Ñ¤£µM«ç»ò³q¹Lµ§¸Õ¡H´N¹³§Ú­Ìªº­^¤å±Ð¨|¦³¤@°ïªº®É§Ç¤åªk¡A§A¤£·|¤]¨S¿ìªk³q¹L¤@¨Ç¦Ò¸Õ¡A¯uªº­n§A¤W¸ô´N¹³¯uªº­n¸ò¥~°ê¤H¹ï¸Ü¡A´N«D±`ºò±i¡A¶}¨®¤£¶¶¡AÁ¿­^¤å¶^¶^¼²¼²ªº¡A¬õ¿OÀ³¸Ó°±«o¥[³t¡Aº¡¸£¤lªºÃã·J¥þ³¡§Ñ¥ú¥ú

ÁÙ¦³¤@ºØ¤H«Ü·|¶}¨®¡A¦ý¬O¨S¦³¾r·Ó¡A¨Ò¦p±q¤p¦Ñª¨±Ð¥L«ç»ò¶}¨®¡A´N¹³¬ü°ê¤H±q¤p´N³Q¥Î­^¤å¹ï¸Ü¡A³oºØ¤H¤W¸ô«Ü¥¿±`¤]¤£ºò±i¡A´N¹³¦Ñ¥~¨º¼Ë¡A¦ý¬O¦Ò¾r·Ó¡H«ç»ò¦Ò´N¬O¨S¹L¡Aµ§¸Õ¦Ò¯{¥æ³q³W«h¤£²M·¡µ¥µ¥¡A´N¹³·|Á¿¤£·|¤åªk®É§Ç¨º¨Çªº¡A¥L·|¦ÛµM¦ÓµMªº¥Î¦ý¬O¦Ò¸Õ´N¥þ·´¤F



©Ò¥H§A¬OÁ¿¤F¥b¤ÑÁÙ¬O¨S§â­«ÂIÁ`µ²¥X¨Ó ...
­n¡u¨C¤Ñ¥Î¡v¤£´Nµ²¤F¶Ü¡H
////

¥t¥~´Nºâ¬ü°ê¤H¨S¦³¸ô¦Ò¡@±q¤p¬Ý¨ì¤j¡@®aªø¦Ñ®v³£·|±Ð
¸£¤l¸Ì¥æ³q³W«h¤£·|¤£²M·¡
¸Ó§Ö¸ÓºC¡@½Ö¥ý½Ö«á¡@¤°»ò¸¹»xªí¥Ü¤°»ò¡@²M·¡±o«Ü
©Ò¥H§Ú¤£À´§A©Ò¿×ªº¡@"¦Ò¾r·Ó¡H«ç»ò¦Ò´N¬O¨S¹L¡Aµ§¸Õ¦Ò¯{¥æ³q³W«h¤£²M·¡"¡@¬O®Ú¾Ú¤°»ò¡H

"¥æ³q³W«h¤£²M·¡"¡@¡Õ== ¬ü°êµó¤W¨®¤l¨º»ò¦h¡@¤£³Q¨®¼²¦º¡@¤]·|³Q´²¼uºj¥´¦º

§Ú¬Ý§AÀ³´«­Ó¤ñ³ë
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ID¤w§R°£
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

1507 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2011 :  23:36:38  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ID¤w§R°£ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by von_Guo


©Ò¥H§A¬OÁ¿¤F¥b¤ÑÁÙ¬O¨S§â­«ÂIÁ`µ²¥X¨Ó ...
­n¡u¨C¤Ñ¥Î¡v¤£´Nµ²¤F¶Ü¡H
////

¥t¥~´Nºâ¬ü°ê¤H¨S¦³¸ô¦Ò¡@±q¤p¬Ý¨ì¤j¡@®aªø¦Ñ®v³£·|±Ð
¸£¤l¸Ì¥æ³q³W«h¤£·|¤£²M·¡
¸Ó§Ö¸ÓºC¡@½Ö¥ý½Ö«á¡@¤°»ò¸¹»xªí¥Ü¤°»ò¡@²M·¡±o«Ü
©Ò¥H§Ú¤£À´§A©Ò¿×ªº¡@"¦Ò¾r·Ó¡H«ç»ò¦Ò´N¬O¨S¹L¡Aµ§¸Õ¦Ò¯{¥æ³q³W«h¤£²M·¡"¡@¬O®Ú¾Ú¤°»ò¡H

"¥æ³q³W«h¤£²M·¡"¡@¡Õ== ¬ü°êµó¤W¨®¤l¨º»ò¦h¡@¤£³Q¨®¼²¦º¡@¤]·|³Q´²¼uºj¥´¦º

§Ú¬Ý§AÀ³´«­Ó¤ñ³ë



¥xÆWªº¾r·Óµ§¸Õ....

¨C¤Ñ³£©M¤k¤Í¶Â¨qªº¤H¡A¬ÛÃöÂå¾Ç¡B©Êª¾ÃÑÁÙ¬O¿éµ¹³B¨kÂå¥Íªü

º¡¸£¤l³£ª¾¹D«ç»ò°µ¡A«ç»ò«OÅ@ªº³B¨kÂå¥Í­n°µªº®É­Ô³n±¼¤]¬O¦³ªºXD
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³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L
ª©¥D

7782 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  00:03:09  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rockitten

quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

¦³¨Ç³Y²§,­^»y³oºØ«÷­µ¤å¦r¤]·|¦³¤åª¼?
«÷­µ¦rÀ³¸Ó®e©ö¾Ç¤~¹ï ¦Ü¤Ö¤ñ¤è¶ô¦r¶H§Î¦r¦n¾Ç


they can speak the languages doesn't mean they can read and write if no one teach them those alphabets

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
¦h¶R¦h§@¶i¨B¦h¡A¶R¤F¤£§@¤f¤ô¦h¡Fªá¿ú¯Ó®É¶Ëºë¯«¡A¤p¿ß¬O°¦±Ñ®aØp¡C



alphabets¤]¤~26­Ó,ºâ¤W¤j¤p¼g¤]¤£¹L52­Ó
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¾Ç®Ñ¥¼¦¨¥ý²ß¼C
¥Î¼CµL¥¦AŪ®Ñ
Ū®Ñ²ß¼C¨âµL¦¨
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  00:05:16  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

quote:
Originally posted by rockitten

quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

¦³¨Ç³Y²§,­^»y³oºØ«÷­µ¤å¦r¤]·|¦³¤åª¼?
«÷­µ¦rÀ³¸Ó®e©ö¾Ç¤~¹ï ¦Ü¤Ö¤ñ¤è¶ô¦r¶H§Î¦r¦n¾Ç


they can speak the languages doesn't mean they can read and write if no one teach them those alphabets

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
¦h¶R¦h§@¶i¨B¦h¡A¶R¤F¤£§@¤f¤ô¦h¡Fªá¿ú¯Ó®É¶Ëºë¯«¡A¤p¿ß¬O°¦±Ñ®aØp¡C



alphabets¤]¤~26­Ó,ºâ¤W¤j¤p¼g¤]¤£¹L52­Ó
¯uªº¦³¤H¤£·|¼g??


but how to spell those words, how to use them properly....etc are not that easy if you didn't learn them when you are still a kid and growing up is an environment that has very few opportunity to access books
-
just like how hard it is for you to learn german now

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
¦h¶R¦h§@¶i¨B¦h¡A¶R¤F¤£§@¤f¤ô¦h¡Fªá¿ú¯Ó®É¶Ëºë¯«¡A¤p¿ß¬O°¦±Ñ®aØp¡C

Edited by - rockitten on 07/13/2011 00:06:55
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MikeH
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

USA
4731 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  00:17:05  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message
¦Ò¸Õ¥u¬O­Ó«D±`»ø¤Æ²¤Æªº¼Ð·Ç ©M¯u¥¿¹ê¤O¤£¬O¤@½X¤l¨Æ
©À¬ã¨s©Ò®Éªº¥xÆW¦P¾Ç ¦«ºÖ¦Ü¤Ö500¤À
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¦³¨Ç¦b¬ü¤Q´X¤G¤Q¦~ ­^»yµ{«×ÁÙ¬Oªü²z¤£¹F

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===
¦a¤U­x¤õ®w
http://guns-mikeh.blogspot.com/
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ID¤w§R°£
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

1507 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  02:01:23  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ID¤w§R°£ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by MikeH

¦Ò¸Õ¥u¬O­Ó«D±`»ø¤Æ²¤Æªº¼Ð·Ç ©M¯u¥¿¹ê¤O¤£¬O¤@½X¤l¨Æ
©À¬ã¨s©Ò®Éªº¥xÆW¦P¾Ç ¦«ºÖ¦Ü¤Ö500¤À
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¦ý¬OÀY¤@¨â¦~ »y¨¥¤W©úÅã³£¦³§xÃø
¦³¨Ç¦b¬ü¤Q´X¤G¤Q¦~ ­^»yµ{«×ÁÙ¬Oªü²z¤£¹F

®É§Ç¤åªk ¥u¬O¾Ç²ß¬ã¨s»y¨¥ªº¤u¨ã
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¤¤°ê¹L¥h¨º»òªøªº®É¶¡¤åª¼ÁÙ¬O¦ûµ´¤j¦h¼Æ

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¤@­Ó¾Ç²ß¤¤¤åªº¦Ñ¥~¡A¥i¬O¥H¥Î¤å¨¥¤å¼g¥X¥L·Q­nªí¹Fªº·N«ä§A»¡¥L¤¤¤å¤ô·Ç¦n¤£¦n¡H

¦Ó¦bÂå¾Ç¤W©Ò¿×ªº¦Û³¬¯g±wªÌ¡A´NÃþ¦ü«e­±©ÒÁ¿ªº¡AµLªk»P¤H¥¿±`ªº·¾³q¡A¦ý¬O¨ä¤¤¦³³¡¤Àªº¦Û³¬¯g±wªÌ«o¾Ö¦³¬Û·í°ªªº³y¸Ú¡A¹³¦³­Ó¥s°µÅU«°ªº´N¬O§@®a

§Ú­Ìªº±Ð¨|µ²ªG¬O¡A­±¹ï­±»¡¤£´±¡A¦ý¬O¯àŪ¯à¼g¡A´N¤ô·Ç¤W¨ÓÁ¿¨È¬wªº­^¤å¯à¤O½T¹ê¶W¹L¬ü°ê
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SleeplessPrometheus
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

3126 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  02:54:00  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send SleeplessPrometheus a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

quote:
Originally posted by rockitten

quote:
Originally posted by ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L

¦³¨Ç³Y²§,­^»y³oºØ«÷­µ¤å¦r¤]·|¦³¤åª¼?
«÷­µ¦rÀ³¸Ó®e©ö¾Ç¤~¹ï ¦Ü¤Ö¤ñ¤è¶ô¦r¶H§Î¦r¦n¾Ç


they can speak the languages doesn't mean they can read and write if no one teach them those alphabets

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
¦h¶R¦h§@¶i¨B¦h¡A¶R¤F¤£§@¤f¤ô¦h¡Fªá¿ú¯Ó®É¶Ëºë¯«¡A¤p¿ß¬O°¦±Ñ®aØp¡C



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°Ñ¨£³o­Ó³sµ²¡A¥¢Åª¯g©ÎºÙ¬°¾\Ū»Ùê
http://www.dls.ym.edu.tw/neuroscience/edys_c.html
http://www.dls.ym.edu.tw/neuroscience/dyslexia_c.html

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¤G¤Q´X¦~«e§Ú´N¬Ý¤å³¹Å¥»¡¬ü°ê³oºØ¯gª¬ªº¤H¤£¤Ö¡A¨º¦~ÀY¾\Ū»Ùê³oÁÙºâ¬O¤Ö¤H¬ã¨sªºªF¦è¡C
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Edited by - SleeplessPrometheus on 07/13/2011 03:02:04
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MikeH
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

USA
4731 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  06:28:46  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message
quote:
§Ú­Ìªº±Ð¨|µ²ªG¬O¡A­±¹ï­±»¡¤£´±¡A¦ý¬O¯àŪ¯à¼g¡A´N¤ô·Ç¤W¨ÓÁ¿¨È¬wªº­^¤å¯à¤O½T¹ê¶W¹L¬ü°ê


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http://www.sd148.org/Junior%20High%20Website/library/8th%20Grade%20Reading%20List.pdf
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Fuller
­è­è¤Jªù

41 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  06:44:23  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Fuller a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by huangmin95


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Ok, I am still confused. I still do not quite fathom nor understand your point.

What is your judgement criteria of language proficiency? I think you need to clarify your judgement criteria. It's stronger if you can succinctly lay out your judgment criteria then support your hypothesis by concrete examples, rather than mere analogies that could be confusing.

I received my essay composition skill mostly from Taiwan at an early age. The skills I learned in how to write in a more organized and systematic manner benefited me greatly when I came here. ¥xÆW«Ü¦­´N±Ð¼g§ç±¡¤å¡A±Ô­z¤å¡A½×¤åµ¥µ¥¡C

Compared to an average American student, once I managed to accumulate enough English grammar and vocabulary, I was able to express myself in a more organized and systematic manner compare to my American classmates even though my English grammar and vocabulary is quite far behind my American classmates.

However, US students learned how to do research and reports very early on. I struggled greatly as I am not used to that type of assignment as Taiwan focused more on rote memorization and more "structured" approach. However, after a few years of learning the US way, I was fine.

American students in college is already used to research reports.
The reports really are not that big of a deal, it is fairly routine. But, my friends from Taiwan who did not come here until college or graduate school struggled a lot initially.

When I went back to Taiwan to visit my friends, some of them were in so called °ê¥ß¤j¾Ç¡C Alas, I really cannot say their English skill is comparable to at least some of the US college students that I know. Granted, people I knew at that time who were attending a US college were in Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley, Princeton, Yale, Northwestern, etc. but I have also met with students from NTU and other "top" colleges in Taiwan.

I helped some friends from Taiwan to apply for graduate school here by helping them correct their application essay. I've been doing it for over 10 years more or less. I can tell you the problems I encountered are very "distinct". They all tend to make very similar mistakes (Taiwan & China students). Their essay sometimes make more sense if I obtain their original Chinese draft or translate their essay into Chinese because their way of writing often just translate from Chinese to English, which is very understandable as their thought process is still in Chinese.

The skill of writing an organized essay is often transferable from one language to another. There are people who are bad writers and readers in both USA and Taiwan. If you want to compare and prove your theory that Taiwan's English education is superior than American English education in reading and writing, you might want to lay out your criteria and we can compare samples from similar academic/social strata. It is not fair to compare say Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Princeton college student essay writing ability to some 18¤À´N¥i¥H¶i¥hªº¥xÆW¤j¾Ç¾Ç¥Í¡C The reverse is true of comparing top students in Taiwan to some diploma mill college students who are barely passing their English class. There are plenty of Americans who fail at basic English, but I can say the same if browsing Taiwan website and witness the English there is any guide.
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von_Guo
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

4430 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  07:10:53  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send von_Guo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by huangmin95


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Edited by - von_Guo on 07/13/2011 07:33:47
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Bryan C
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

USA
1455 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  07:36:38  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit Bryan C's Homepage Send Bryan C a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by MikeH

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Happens to me and my niece when we were back in Taiwan recently. She was only 3 years old, and can't speak a word of Taiwanese or Mandarin. So I have to "translate" what she said in English to her playmates in various playgrounds or parks. Then, funny things started to happen----when the parents found out she only speaks English, they were forcing their kids to only speak English to her too, a some sort of free American English learning chance of sort, and don't have to pay big money to take American English lessons for their kids.....

But when those kids were only 2-6 or 7 years old, they're not really going to learn anything while having fun..... They only remember her English name, and then the rest pretty much using hand gestures and they speak their own languages and pretending to understand each others..... Only other things those kids got stuck with was their English name, or nicknames.....

Edited by - Bryan C on 07/13/2011 07:39:59
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pcgamer
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

10079 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  12:05:21  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send pcgamer a Private Message
¦b³Q±B¥~±¡Áà»Dµ¹¥´ÂZ¤F¨â­Ó¤ë«á¡Aªü¿Õ¨M©w­«ªð¦nµÜ¶õ¡A¥Î¨Ó´_¥X¤j¿Ã¹õªº¹q¼v¬O¤@³¡¦è³¡¤ù¡A¤ù¦W¦n¹³¬O¥s°µThe Last Stand¡A¹w­p¤µ¦~¤E¤ë¶}©ç¡G
http://news.yahoo.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-back-hollywood-saddle-despite-scandal-004054168.html
Arnold Schwarzenegger back in Hollywood saddle, despite scandal

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MikeH
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

USA
4731 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2011 :  23:07:59  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message
> ©À¬ã¨s©Ò®Éªº¥xÆW¦P¾Ç ¦«ºÖ¦Ü¤Ö500¤À
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http://guns-mikeh.blogspot.com/
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ID¤w§R°£
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

1507 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  02:59:04  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ID¤w§R°£ a Private Message
¦n¹³ÆZ¦h¤H¹ï©ó­^¤åµ{«×¦³ºÃ°Ý¡A§Ú¦b¸Ô²ÓÂI¦^µª

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À³¸Õ¬O¹ï©ó¾Ç²ß¼Ð·Çªº«ÈÆ[µû¦ô¡A¤£ºÞ§A­Ì«ç»ò§å§P¦«ºÖSTA¡A¤À¼Æ¤~¬O­«ÂI¡A§A·|»¡¦ý¬O¤£·|¼g­^¤å¡B¬Ý¤£À´¡AÁp¦Ò´N¬O­^¤å±¾³J

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¦Ó§Ú­Ìªº­^¤å±Ð¨|¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬Oªø¬KÃõ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥XÃD¥Øªº¦Ñ®v¬O°ê¥~¦^¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·ÇªºÃD¥Ø¡A§Ú¤]¤£ª¾¹D­þ¸Ì¦³¤ô·Ç¤F¡A¬°¤F°t¦X¦Ò¸Õ¦]¦¹±Ð¨|¤W´N¥H«D±`ÄY®æªº­^¤å±Ð¨|³B²z

CAN YOU DO THIS?

»OÆW¤H¦^µª¡AYES,I CAN.

¦Ñ¥~¥Î»y¡AYUP
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MikeH
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

USA
4731 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  03:58:25  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message
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http://guns-mikeh.blogspot.com/
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Fuller
­è­è¤Jªù

41 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  07:08:25  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Fuller a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by huangmin95

¦n¹³ÆZ¦h¤H¹ï©ó­^¤åµ{«×¦³ºÃ°Ý¡A§Ú¦b¸Ô²ÓÂI¦^µª

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You need to provide concrete data and example to backup your assertion of "Taiwan's English education is superior to America's English education level"

MikeH has already provided an URL in his post, supply some data + study of native English speaker versus ESL student's TOEFL and even GRE verbal score as comparison.
http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/RR-02-16.pdf

Did you even read it?

Also, your assertion "¦Ó§Ú­Ìªº­^¤å±Ð¨|¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬Oªø¬KÃõ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥XÃD¥Øªº¦Ñ®v¬O°ê¥~¦^¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·ÇªºÃD¥Ø" suffers from a big problem. Just because the test maker is from Ivy league, it does not mean the test will be ivy league level.

For example:

I invite 5 Nobel Prize winner to make an English exam. The exam's level of difficulty is only America's 8th grade level English. Does that mean that test is "Nobel Prize level difficulty?" You need to look at the content, the difficulty level of the exam, not just assume the exam difficulty will match test maker's own level of competence.

Edited by - Fuller on 07/14/2011 10:19:15
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  11:40:37  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Fuller

Also, your assertion "¦Ó§Ú­Ìªº­^¤å±Ð¨|¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬Oªø¬KÃõ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥XÃD¥Øªº¦Ñ®v¬O°ê¥~¦^¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·ÇªºÃD¥Ø" suffers from a big problem. Just because the test maker is from Ivy league, it does not mean the test will be ivy league level.

For example:

I invite 5 Nobel Prize winner to make an English exam. The exam's level of difficulty is only America's 8th grade level English. Does that mean that test is "Nobel Prize level difficulty?" You need to look at the content, the difficulty level of the exam, not just assume the exam difficulty will match test maker's own level of competence.


Or for example:
¥xÆWXX¤ë¥Zªº¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æµ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥X½Zªº¦Ñ®v¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æ¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·Çªº¤ë¥Z
-
What's an egg head "scholar"


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A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
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Fuller
­è­è¤Jªù

41 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  12:00:00  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Fuller a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rockitten

Or for example:
¥xÆWXX¤ë¥Zªº¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æµ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥X½Zªº¦Ñ®v¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æ¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·Çªº¤ë¥Z
-
What's an egg head "scholar"



egghead scholar? I might use the word erudite instead.

As far as ¥x¦¨²M¥æ, I think it probably earns people's respect easier, but my view is I will try to look at the content, if possible. It's not always possible for me to understand everything so if I encounter an author from ¥x¦¨²M¥æ, I'm more likely to think this is probably more credible. I rely on ¥x¦¨²M¥æ to do the screening work for me, just like some employer and customer gives more deference to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Caltech, etc. etc. graduates.

Both of my parents graduated from ¥x¦¨²M¥æ. It's harder for me to badmouth those schools ;p Since enough of my relatives went to those schools.

Edited by - Fuller on 07/14/2011 12:09:42
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  12:30:45  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Fuller

quote:
Originally posted by rockitten

Or for example:
¥xÆWXX¤ë¥Zªº¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æµ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥X½Zªº¦Ñ®v¬O¥x¦¨²M¥æ¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·Çªº¤ë¥Z
-
What's an egg head "scholar"



egghead scholar? I might use the word erudite instead.

As far as ¥x¦¨²M¥æ, I think it probably earns people's respect easier, but my view is I will try to look at the content, if possible. It's not always possible for me to understand everything so if I encounter an author from ¥x¦¨²M¥æ, I'm more likely to think this is probably more credible. I rely on ¥x¦¨²M¥æ to do the screening work for me, just like some employer and customer gives more deference to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Caltech, etc. etc. graduates.

Both of my parents graduated from ¥x¦¨²M¥æ. It's harder for me to badmouth those schools ;p Since enough of my relatives went to those schools.


My parents are from NCKU as well, and their comment about those graduated from ¥x¦¨²M¥æ or any "elite" school is that, not all graduates are really that capable, some are nothing but "exam machines". If there is no past papers or "private tutors" available, many of them may just the same as those in "average universities". So elite school doesn't always mean excellent works.

And they always insists that graduated from elite schools may give you better chance, but it is what you do and say that really matters. I was from an elite uni as well, but through out my career history so far, not all graduates are really that elite, me included
-
by the way, that ¥xÆWXX¤ë¥Z joke is referring to a recent shambles in Taiwan publishing field, and it is that 95 i call him a egghead, not you.

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A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
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ID¤w§R°£
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1507 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  17:01:38  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ID¤w§R°£ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Fuller


You need to provide concrete data and example to backup your assertion of "Taiwan's English education is superior to America's English education level"

MikeH has already provided an URL in his post, supply some data + study of native English speaker versus ESL student's TOEFL and even GRE verbal score as comparison.
http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/RR-02-16.pdf

Did you even read it?

Also, your assertion "¦Ó§Ú­Ìªº­^¤å±Ð¨|¤ô·Ç¤j¬ù¬Oªø¬KÃõ¥¯Åªº¡A­ì¦]¦b©ó¥XÃD¥Øªº¦Ñ®v¬O°ê¥~¦^¨Óªº¡A³oºØ¥s°µ¦³¤ô·ÇªºÃD¥Ø" suffers from a big problem. Just because the test maker is from Ivy league, it does not mean the test will be ivy league level.

For example:

I invite 5 Nobel Prize winner to make an English exam. The exam's level of difficulty is only America's 8th grade level English. Does that mean that test is "Nobel Prize level difficulty?" You need to look at the content, the difficulty level of the exam, not just assume the exam difficulty will match test maker's own level of competence.



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Lugiahua
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USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  18:41:17  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Lugiahua a Private Message
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http://cer.ntnu.edu.tw/policy/getfile.php?lct=./txt/c29htm.php

Edited by - Lugiahua on 07/14/2011 18:49:14
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³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L
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7782 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  20:49:25  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L a Private Message
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Edited by - ³°¾Ô«Î¤p¨B§L on 07/14/2011 21:14:35
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MikeH
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USA
4731 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2011 :  21:18:14  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message
¥u½×°ò¥»µ{«×ªº¸Ü ¬ü°ê¤H¤fÃѦr²v99.0%
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate



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