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sun
路人甲乙丙
1541 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2012 : 22:24:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Evil
該文章後續發表了
軍方人士分析，雄三飛彈已經屬於大型飛彈，若以三馬赫的高速，加上撞擊力與爆炸力，若是軍艦被擊中，只要一枚就幾乎沒有存活率。由於雄三增程飛彈太過敏感，為了避免引起兩岸情勢爭端以及各國的刺探，國防部祕而不宣。
（後文恕刪）
不知軍方人士對「存活率」的定義為何？
擊沈嗎？還是喪失作戰力？個人真是疑惑。
畢竟，噸位不同的軍艦承受破壞的能力是不一樣的。
印像中，蚊式（P-270 Moskit, 北約：日炙, SS-N-22 Sunburn）反艦飛彈也無法一發就擊沈提康德羅加級這種近萬噸的軍艦。
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dasha
版主
41804 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2012 : 10:19:48
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quote:
Originally posted by sun
quote:
Originally posted by dasha
海軍的飛彈發射單位,包括船與陣地,都有這種戰術,不過一個跑過好幾種船的學長說,用這招時基本上就是認為,敵人下一波攻擊我大概就沒命了,與其帶飛彈下地獄,不如就用光吧......
（後文恕刪）
大俠兄，個人認為，這個是有前提的。
如果遭受的是空中攻擊（無論是艦艇或陸基），或者是陣地遭受導彈攻擊，這種發射後讓飛彈「盲找」的模式，其效益應該是零。
尤其是陸基陣地，除非是敵方艦艇發射巡弋飛彈（而且是短程，意味著有機會摧毀敵人），飛彈是否要發射？
但是，如果是艦艇相互交戰狀況，這是有可能的。（同歸於盡？！）
個人認為，在固定的陸基陣地仍從有戰力之前，對手會輕易的將海上艦艇駛入我方飛彈涵蓋射程內，企圖用艦艇摧毀陣地，而不動用彈道飛彈（最佳）或是空中攻擊模式（可能承受防空武力反擊），其實蠻不可思議的。
如果飛彈射域內，無敵方艦艇存在，回歸原觀點「發射飛彈沒效益」。所以陸基陣地與艦艇，在運用此種戰術上，雖然都可以，但是意義與結果可能全然不同。
回想85年，中共試射飛彈時其靶區位置，台灣西岸已經都在其涵蓋範圍內了。
基本上,中共東海艦隊基地(浙江)如果發射SS-N-12/19,至少可以封鎖基隆港,這是台海交戰海域的範圍,小於300海浬;台灣海峽北段的寬度,略大於100海浬.注意到範圍很小以後,才能討論軍方的戰術到底是怎麼想的.
至於反艦飛彈的效力,人家記者會只是隨便說說的,不要太認真.SS-N-22是號稱一發能讓六千噸級軍艦失去戰力,他們也不敢直接說擊沈. |
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kumachan
路人甲乙丙
Taiwan
3832 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2013 : 13:04:11
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射程400km,說穿了是當成有導引的彈道飛彈在用，
先盲射往固定的目標港口飛過去，
到了飛彈再開小雷達找目標。
由於目標都不動且大小船隻成千上百，矇到船艦的機率不低。
不過其衝壓引擎耐久性沒問題嗎？
放大是可以增加燃料與推力，但材質應該不變，也就加速損耗。
如果還有餘裕，那搞不好幾年後還會有600+km級的。 |
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Reinherd Von Hwang提督
我是老鳥
USA
9567 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2013 : 05:53:24
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quote:
Originally posted by kumachan
射程400km,說穿了是當成有導引的彈道飛彈在用，
先盲射往固定的目標港口飛過去，
到了飛彈再開小雷達找目標。
由於目標都不動且大小船隻成千上百，矇到船艦的機率不低。
不過其衝壓引擎耐久性沒問題嗎？
放大是可以增加燃料與推力，但材質應該不變，也就加速損耗。
如果還有餘裕，那搞不好幾年後還會有600+km級的。
http://www.haodoo.net/?M=hhd&P=B24-11
黃河艦長的小說"武嚇台灣"裡面的疾風四號飛彈
我猜就是1990年代對於雄三的性能/任務定位/使用戰術的推估
直接用來打固定的機場和港口設施
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Edited by - Reinherd Von Hwang提督 on 01/18/2013 05:53:54 |
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Reinherd Von Hwang提督
我是老鳥
USA
9567 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 05:10:36
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奇文共賞
台灣開發"雲峰"飛彈
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130118/DEFREG03/301180021/Taiwan-Working-New-8216-Cloud-Peak-8217-Missile?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
TAIPEI — Taiwan’s military is developing an offensive surface-to-surface missile with a 1,200-kilometer range that could cover China’s central and southern regions, including Shanghai.
射程長達1200km的地對地飛彈
Codenamed Cloud Peak (Yunfeng), the missile is outfitted with a ramjet engine capable of speeds of Mach 3 or higher. The “high-altitude missile ... does not leave the atmosphere,” a Taiwan government official said.
一個台灣政府人士表示：
代號雲峰 壓衝飛彈引擎 三馬赫以上 高空飛行但是在大氣層內
Future advancements of the Cloud Peak could include a range of up to 2,000 kilometers. Production for the new missile is scheduled to begin in 2014.
未來改進目標是延長射程到2000km, 2014年生產
The government source also revealed that Taiwan has deployed the mobile Hsiung Feng 2E land-attack cruise missile (LACM) system with three squadrons on the northern part of the island. The subsonic Hsiung Feng 2E has a range of 600 kilometers, the source said.
同時該人士透漏：
雄風二E可以機動部屬，有三個飛彈中隊（squadron)射程600km
The government source said the Missile Command controls a special unit, 601 Group, designated for handling “offensive missile systems.” Under the 601 Group, three squadrons are fielded with the Hsiung Feng 2E.
將會由601飛彈群負責操作雲峰飛彈 該單位同時編制三個雄二E中隊
One squadron is based at the Missile Command Headquarters at Taishan in Taipei County, formerly the U.S. Army’s 2nd Missile Battalion Headquarters. The missiles can be seen from Google Earth at 25°02’13.59”N by 121°25’14.90”E.
其中一個中隊的著地在新北市泰山 前美國陸軍第二飛彈營營部著地
（還提供google earth座標）
Visible at this site are four launcher vehicles, two command vehicles, five satellite relay vehicles and two missile loader vehicles. The base was formerly a MIM-14 Nike-Hercules surface-to-air missile (SAM) base, and decommissioned Nike missiles are exhibited near the front gate.
（google earth上可以看到四輛發射車 兩輛指揮車 五輛衛星資訊接收車 以及兩輛填裝車）
A second squadron is based at Sanxia, Taipei County, at the CSIST Systems Manufacturing Center. The exact location of these missiles is not visible on Google Earth. The front gate is located at 24°54’10.41”N by 121°21’17.18”E.
（第二個中隊在三峽 中科院系統生產中心）
A third squadron is based at an old Nike SAM site at Yangmei, Taoyuan County, which has undergone extensive renovation over the past several years. In 2003, Google Earth images indicated the facility was abandoned and in disrepair. Images from 2010 show new buildings and the deployment of three launcher vehicles, one command vehicle, and one satellite relay vehicle. The vehicles are covered with camouflage netting. There is also a helicopter-landing pad on the base. Missiles are visible at 24°54’07.14”N by 121°07’05.27”E, according to Google Earth.
（第三個中隊在桃園 楊梅 前勝利女神飛彈駐地
2003年的google earth照片是荒蕪一片 2010年開始有蓋新的大樓以及三輛發射車等等）
The bases are roughly 160 kilometers from the first target of opportunity: the Chinese signal intelligence facility at Dongjing Shan (Daqiu). It is located 140 kilometers from Taiwan at 25°24’55.48”N by 119°37’53.81”E. The facility has been an irritant to Taiwan’s military since the early stages of the Cold War.
（這些陣地大約離第一目標160公里遠--->中共的福建東京山電子情報接收站
http://news.chinatimes.com/politics/50207040/132012061900706.html）
But former vice minister of defense for policy, Lin Chong Pin, said China has more than one way to take Taiwan.
“China these days does not rely on military instruments as such to achieve its ultimate goal of unification,” he said. All that China has to do, with the opening of direct Chinese investment into Taiwan, is “to buy Taiwan.” This is “cheaper than to attack Taiwan,” Lin said.
When asked if Taipei was concerned the U.S. would object to the new missiles because they violate the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) — which limits missile payloads to 500 kilograms and ranges of no more than 300 kilometers — the government source replied, “This is a 1,000 percent violation of the MTCR, and I don’t care what the [expletive] Americans think.”
York Chen, a former member of Taiwan’s National Security Bureau under the Chen Shui-bian administration, said he expects the U.S. to complain, as always. However, he said, “as far as I know, they will only be used after Taiwan is being attacked” by China.
The Taiwan government source said both the Hsiung Feng 2E and Cloud Peak were a response to China’s efforts to modernize its short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) force. China has 1,500 Dong Feng 11/15 SRBMs aimed at the island. The source said the U.S. has done nothing to pressure China into reducing the number of these missiles, and Taipei has become leery of U.S. reassurances that it would provide protection during a war.
Chen said he agreed with this attitude.
“The U.S. should turn to watch the PLA [People’s Liberation Army] missiles instead” of worrying about Taiwan’s paltry number of offensive missiles, he said.
---------------------------------我是分隔線---------------------------
關鍵字： By WENDELL MINNICK
所以 看看就好 不要太當真
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ian125
我是老鳥
8327 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2013 : 09:55:46
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| 問題是那消息是有所本的，因為這是去年12月的台灣新聞... |
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zfss
路人甲乙丙
2266 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2013 : 12:17:30
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quote:
Originally posted by dasha
基本上,中共東海艦隊基地(浙江)如果發射SS-N-12/19,
[/quote]
这两种大陆都没有啊，倒是越南有批SS-N-3的陆射版SSC-1A
说到伪装成货柜车的，还不如学伊朗的
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雄三彈改良型試射成功，射程四百公里
