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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
 Posted - 04/18/2013 : 21:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
It will be quite interesting if people integrate the statistics of wasting fresh water due to flood gate opening, leakage of fresh water tunnels, etc with the water supply from China, an interesting conclusion can be made.
Of course I DIDN'T SAY that the fresh water supply from China is totally unnecessary, but well I know you can't read lol.
There are various alternative water supply plan from the Hong Kong Government (in case of drought in China), from hiring ULCC filled with fresh water (practiced in 60s and 70s) to renting water desalination vessels (several are operating in the Gulf region already)
For the food supply, the period that it mentioned was from early 60s to early 80s, which Hong Kong is the major purchaser of their food products. Or maybe can you find statistics of food export of China from early 60s to early 80s? Thanks a lot!
1、浪费也是用水量的一部分，各个地区和国家都有浪费，别忘记香港还是热带。大陆的供水已经不是有必要没必要的问题，每年占据香港用水量70%的供应量意味着这是香港主要水来源，再节约可以把香港每年用水量节约70%？
至于说代替方案，香港是个和大陆相连的半岛，你还真准备用油轮运输淡水？成本呢？再这种成本下香港的经济呢？
2、那篇文章YY的是，香港是大陆目前（而不是什么60-80年代）唯一的食品买家，他连日本是大陆最大食品买家都不知道。他YY的是香港离开大陆没关系，食品和饮水都可以解决，完全是不看数字的想当然。
说到大陆食品贸易：
http://www.studa.net/guojimaoyi/110214/16120526.html
从中国食品出口与进口贸易额的差额来看，中国是食品的净出口国，除2004年外，1985年一2005年间中国食品贸易差额均为顺差，其中1994年最高，食品贸易顺差达到71亿美元，到2005年降至30．94亿美元，2006年食品贸易顺差为49．47亿美元。
大陆粮食问题真正解决要到70年代石油和化肥工业真正搞起来才完成的。
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SK2x2
我是菜鳥
569 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 10:45:15
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Well the fact is Hong Kong did use ULCC as water transporter in the 60s when drought strike. Fact.
The percentage of waste of fresh water in Hong Kong is much higher than in other developed places, due to lack of investment in changing the water tubes in the 90s. Quite a lot of fresh water tubes are over 30 or even 40 years old and waiting to be replaced. A large scale replacement project is on-going and will reduce greatly wastage.
I hope you do understand that "多年以來" in there actually means years ago, and multiple years, which Hong Kong people people surely knows it's early 60s to 80s, when Hong Kong is China's major consumer of food, especially canned food. |
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MANINAU
新手上路
67 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 13:45:50
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 14:42:35
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
Well the fact is Hong Kong did use ULCC as water transporter in the 60s when drought strike. Fact.
The percentage of waste of fresh water in Hong Kong is much higher than in other developed places, due to lack of investment in changing the water tubes in the 90s. Quite a lot of fresh water tubes are over 30 or even 40 years old and waiting to be replaced. A large scale replacement project is on-going and will reduce greatly wastage.
I hope you do understand that "多年以來" in there actually means years ago, and multiple years, which Hong Kong people people surely knows it's early 60s to 80s, when Hong Kong is China's major consumer of food, especially canned food.
1、事实是香港缺水才导致港英政府不得不和大陆谈供水问题，如果香港能靠自己自力更生解决，巴不得香港不和大陆联系的港英政府除非全是共谍，否则没理由给大陆送钱加深香港对大陆的依赖。
另外提醒下，一个以制造业为主的香港对水的需求会比以金融服务业为主的香港高很多，制造业很难接受一个连水都无法保障供应的城市发展，而香港作为四小龙的崛起，主要恰好是靠制造业和出口。
2、所谓香港浪费水比例远高于其他发达国家，请拿论文和数据对比说话，不然我只能认为这和那位香港人所谓香港不需要大陆供水，香港不需要大陆食品一样都是根本不查数据的错误观点。
3、那位香港人说的肯定不是60-80年代，他说供水问题所谓香港去工业化已经用水量大幅度降低，这肯定说的不是60-80年代，而是90-现在。
而他说的所谓香港是大陆除了北朝鲜外唯一食品买家，这肯定也说的不是60-80年代，那时候北朝鲜依靠苏联经济状态比大陆好得多。
另外，60和70年代中国食品产量还不够，能出口的比较少，如果香港不购买食品，大陆会很高兴可以自己用，而到80年代如我之前引用数据显示的，要购买大陆食品的远不只香港一家。
所以，那位香港人所谓的香港不需要大陆供水和香港人是大陆食品唯一买家全是毫无依据的错误观点。
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SK2x2
我是菜鳥
569 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2013 : 14:59:25
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1. It is a cheaper alternative than building a reservoir at that time, and the Brits wanted to have warmer relationship with China after the riot in 1967, that's it.
2. Hong Kong do survive without China's food for quite long time from late 40's to late 70's, and under the globalization world we have much more alternative choices of food now, which is another fact.
3. Again please read a bit more history of Hong Kong NOT FROM China. There are quite a lot of perceptions and errors. |
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2013 : 00:25:38
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1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
2、全球化背景下大陆食品不需要卖给香港也有买家，香港要买食品容易，要买到足够廉价的食品很不容易。
3、任何论点都需要足够的数据，没数据的论点是没法给你可信度的。 |
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SK2x2
我是菜鳥
569 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 11:59:05
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1. Simple. Distillation plant, which is even more stable than having water supply from China, tried, tested, and successful before
2. Under the globalization world, even China can't provide there are so many other countries that can provide food, and their price can be even lower
3. Please find the information from places other than China, thank you. |
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MACOS8
路人甲乙丙
3316 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 12:17:39
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quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water. |
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SK2x2
我是菜鳥
569 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 12:28:25
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quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
Afterall Hong Kong still have choices in obtaining water supply elsewhere at the expense of paying the increased price of water bill.
Current problem is a mixed development on over-relying, lack of investment in water supply network and abandon in major water collection plans due to the reunion with China. |
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:03:31
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
1. It is a cheaper alternative than building a reservoir at that time, and the Brits wanted to have warmer relationship with China after the riot in 1967, that's it.
2. Hong Kong do survive without China's food for quite long time from late 40's to late 70's, and under the globalization world we have much more alternative choices of food now, which is another fact.
3. Again please read a bit more history of Hong Kong NOT FROM China. There are quite a lot of perceptions and errors.
1、要替换香港供水量70%的供水是不可能的，另外你没任何数据成本和依据的论点毫无可信度。
2、中国提供给香港的重点是新鲜食物，地理就决定了这个不可能。
3、谁立论谁举证，你自己都找不到要我替你找？可笑。 |
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。 |
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 13:28:11
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2x2
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
Afterall Hong Kong still have choices in obtaining water supply elsewhere at the expense of paying the increased price of water bill.
Current problem is a mixed development on over-relying, lack of investment in water supply network and abandon in major water collection plans due to the reunion with China.
港英政府情愿增加对大陆的依赖也不愿意发展香港供水自给自足。别把什么责任都推到大陆头上来。 |
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MACOS8
路人甲乙丙
3316 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2013 : 14:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore#Water_sources_and_integrated_management
By 2011, demand: 380 million imperial gallons/day
domestic supply: local reservoir: 200-300 million gallons/day; NEWwater: up to 115 million imperial gallons/per day; Seawater desalination: up to 50 million imperial gallons/day; So in fact the capacity of domestic water is enough to cover the daily water demand of Singapore.
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I can't find the original report now, but in 2011 Singapore claimed their domestic water supply is enough to meet their water demand. However, they still import the water from Malaysia because the price is way lower than the cost of the domestic water.
Since then, their goal is to meet the 2061 expire date and the growth of population. The projection is they will be able to cover the entire water demand before 2061 by the domestic water, even if the water demand is doubled from the demand of 2011.
You can find their current plan online easily. |
Edited by - MACOS8 on 04/22/2013 14:30:13 |
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xk2008
路人甲乙丙
3803 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2013 : 17:04:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
quote:
Originally posted by MACOS8
quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
1、水不同于别的，没啥更便宜的选择的。香港的地理情况根本就不能保障一个大都市的供应，这是地理问题。
Singapore did it. HK had chance to do the same thing in the past, but the project canceled as China agree to provide fresh water.
谁立论谁举证，说新加坡已经做到供水自给自足，拿出新加坡2012年用水量和供水量的数字吧。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore#Water_sources_and_integrated_management
By 2011, demand: 380 million imperial gallons/day
domestic supply: local reservoir: 200-300 million gallons/day; NEWwater: up to 115 million imperial gallons/per day; Seawater desalination: up to 50 million imperial gallons/day; So in fact the capacity of domestic water is enough to cover the daily water demand of Singapore.
=====================
I can't find the original report now, but in 2011 Singapore claimed their domestic water supply is enough to meet their water demand. However, they still import the water from Malaysia because the price is way lower than the cost of the domestic water.
Since then, their goal is to meet the 2061 expire date and the growth of population. The projection is they will be able to cover the entire water demand before 2061 by the domestic water, even if the water demand is doubled from the demand of 2011.
You can find their current plan online easily.
找了不少文章，到目前为止的文章说的都是新加坡政府的远景，好像没有一个说新加坡政府已经把远景变成现实实现自给自足目标了吧？ |
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MACOS8
路人甲乙丙
3316 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2013 : 01:41:59
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quote:
Originally posted by xk2008
找了不少文章，到目前为止的文章说的都是新加坡政府的远景，好像没有一个说新加坡政府已经把远景变成现实实现自给自足目标了吧？
新加坡在2011年的島內最大供水量已經足夠供應當年每日的用水需求，但你不可能每天產能全開製水。
另外由於新加坡人口快速成長，用水量增加的速度極快，再加上2061跟馬來西亞的供水協訂中止，因此新加坡現在看的是要在2061年前完成全面自主供水的能力。這些供水中預計將有將近80%的水會從回收跟淡化水來，只有20%是從當地水庫供應。而目前如果新加坡要自主供水的話，50%左右的水要從當地水庫供應。 |
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戰後的英國
